Moses Moon Civil Rights Recordings 1963-1964: Washington, DC; after November 22, 1963(OT_N15)

Web Video Text Tracks Format (WebVTT)


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Speaker 1: [[inaudible]] about SNCC.

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Speaker 1: And where SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) is at, and what the problems are in regard to the Civil Rights Movement and in regard to SNCC.

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Speaker 1: Now, White begins by saying that there is a dialogue, but it’s composed mostly of noise, but that underneath the noise and confusion which is rampant around the country there are some real issues to discuss.

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Speaker 1: And he prefers to discuss these real issues in terms of four keywords: Militancy, Freedom Now, Integration, and The Power Structure.

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Speaker 1: This article, I think, is dangerous because it will be read by a lot of people as though he has done his homework.

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Speaker 1: The implication is that he’s a serious person about a serious discussion and that he’s really analyzing after having given considerable time and thought to the problems, what are really the key issues and what are really the key alternatives, and who the key people are and what roles they play.

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Speaker 1: I think just the reverse is true; he hasn’t given a lot of time and thought to that article. It was probably done very hastily and probably done with the killing and assassination of Kennedy in mind. And it’s dangerous just because it gives that appearance and hides behind something that it isn’t.

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Speaker 1: He first makes a dichotomy and says that militancy--

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Speaker 1: --between Negro leaders is that either they appear militant, or they appear as Uncle Toms.

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Speaker 1: But nothing could be farther from the truth because we all know that there are many, many Negro leaders, and we know lots of them that we don’t care to use the word “militant” to describe.

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Speaker 1: Nobody says, "'the militant' Miss Baker".

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Speaker 1: We accept somebody who is rational and intelligent and dedicated.

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Speaker 1: She’s a person who has given her life to bringing about these changes, and we understand that she won’t let us down when it counts.

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Speaker 1: And between the people who shout and scream, and everybody likes to call “militant”, and the people we know and identify as Uncle Toms, there are many, many other people who we recognize as leaders, and as people who are very serious in what we are about; people who above all will not betray us.

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Speaker 1: People, as Miss Baker pointed out last night, will not be very easy and very readily - will not very readily - give in to the power structure or to the administration, or to the White Liberals when they all fought at the first bit of compromise and the first bit of solution.

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Speaker 1: He says that if you ask in a closed meeting of some of these people, should we go all the way even to insurrection?

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And everybody says, “No, we haven’t got the force”.

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And that’s very interesting that they should say, “No we haven’t got the force, and that’s the reason why we shouldn’t insurrect”, or “We shouldn’t give rise to insurrection, because we don’t have the power to do it”.

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It seems to me that that implies that if we had the power then we should. Well now what he’s saying about these people on the one hand is that they say that we shouldn’t give rise to insurrection because we don’t have the power, but if we don’t have the power to give rise to insurrection then shouldn’t we cooperate with the White Liberal Middle-Class Establishment.

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But then he says that therein the dilemma; that if they say yes we should cooperate with these people, then they will be called Uncle Toms.

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But that’s a false dichotomy which he presents.

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It isn’t true that the only alternatives are on the one hand that either we go all the way to insurrection, or on the other hand that we give in and capitulate and have to be labeled as Uncle Toms.

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He says that because we’re in this difficulty, that it’s either we have to present ourselves as Uncle Toms or we have to present ourselves as people who are out to raise insurrection. We then get into what he calls, “a meaningless charade”.

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And you all know the picture, he says the Negroes marched downtown, and then the White people stand up in front of city hall and offer them some kind of platform, which sounds as though an abolitionist had wrote it. And then they leave after going through this ceremony

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Speaker 1: And at the end the Negro masses are simply left outside waving a banner and shouting “Freedom Now”.

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Speaker 1: Now an important thing about this is that he says we get into this bind because of the Negro leadership. That it’s because the Negro leadership is either doesn’t see that it has to say that they are going to cooperate with White people, and doesn’t see that they are forced to leave off the image that they are simply Uncle Toms and faced squarely with their constituency and say,

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Speaker 1: “Look, this is what we have to do. We can’t fight an armed insurrection, we have to cooperate with White people, we have to give in sometimes”, says that this bind is caused because the Negro leadership failed to recognize this. But exactly the reverse is true. The bind is caused because the White people heretofore have only been able to give in to compromise to reach some kind of sensible solutions when they are forced by Negro demands.

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Speaker 1: This is what Lester Dunbar has called, and I said it a lot of times to you- the “annealing of the South”. Says to anneal is to heat an object to white hot heat, and then to mold it while it’s cooling off.

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Speaker 1: And the problem is that the South and the country doesn’t change unless it’s heated up to a white hot heat first, and then while it’s cooling off, in the process of cooling off it’s possible to make some changes.

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Speaker 1: But this is exactly the bind that we are in all over the country. And the bind is not created by the Negro leadership, it’s created by the fact that the White people in the country by and large have not as yet made up their minds whether they’re willing to grant freedom—-

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Speaker 1: The Negros are not part of the European consensus, it's not true that we can be that the analogy to the Negro getting his freedom is the same as the analogy to the immigrant from Europe getting his freedom in this country.

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The problem runs deeper than that, because the immigrants from Europe eventually will all seen to be part of the European community and it was in the context of all being part of a larger European community that they were able as they came to the United States to gain larger and larger doses of freedom 'til finally the Italians and those from Southern Europe were able to be recognised in the country.

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The Negro is not part of that community he is part of the African community in his heritage and this country and the world has yet to come to grips with making a community large enough to encompass the Africans and the Negros. [[clapping]]

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And it's because of that kind of problem, that we're in the difficulty that we're in now. Now [[?]] goes on to talk about freedom now and integration, and integration he pinpoints schooling and housing and i'd like to skip over that to his next point about the power structure,

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because he says some very interesting things in connection with this discussion of the power structure which I think are very relevant to us and the problems we have to discuss.

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He says, first of all, and we said this yesterday, that what we count as a power structure is not only government which is what he says is what white politicians considers a power structure, but the banks the people who control the means of public [[?]].

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Speaker 1: All the finances and the economics of our country.

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He says however, and this is true, that we have influence only at one point in what we describe as a power structure and that's in federal government.

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What he says that we're trying to do is blackmail the federal government into spreading and using its power wherever it can in all the other elements of the power structure to gain what we want, which is freedom.

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Now that's true.

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The problem is, that he doesn't like that. [[laughter]]

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And if he were honest, he would say that.

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Instead of saying as he does, that this is not the real problem.

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That the Negro is not this is not the way to gain his freedom.

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This is not he is not now somehow grabbed a hold of the essence of some of the problems in the country.

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He says instead, that the essence of the problems are in the big cities. Not in the power structure of the country, but in the sweltering mass of the big cities

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And he says that what we really must do is return to the big cities and fight in the slums to bring about a renewed feeling of hope among juvenile delinquents. [[Laughter]]

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Now in essence that's what he says.

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And it's important to understand that because if this article takes off like it probably will then it will be a national debate.

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And what he's done is try to focus where the problem is but the problem is not with the juvenile delinquents, in the big cities.

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The problem is exactly where he started it, or started to focus on it, the problem is with the power structure of this country and we can change it, so that it works

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[[Clapping]] To our advantage.

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Speaker 1: There's a very subtle thing

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He starts off first by talking about two times two types of radicals in this country, one is tied in with our greatest traditions,

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[[?]], Gandhi, fees in our tradition, and American radicals,

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Their characteristic is that they have a grand design, which they enact with grand simplicity

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because they're really simple people.

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And he says that the organisation which embodies this spirit is core.

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And he says that core is really an organisation which is in the American tradition, in direct protest against injustices.

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But that they really have conceived of the problem too simply and so therefore, are really ineffective and are not really hitting, so as to have any dent on the problem in the country.

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He then goes on to say, on the other hand, other elements who are more dangerous, because they are alien to the spirit of this country, and because what they are involved in, is political overthrow.

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And in this context he cites Nick.

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And what he says is, and he gives three examples, he says that for one, Snick in Birmingham in Jackson, and he does he says, I probably should read it to you.

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This isn't fair to the people who haven't read the article.

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But, I think we oughta it's taking it outta context-

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It says a more serious penetration by unidentified elements is believed to have been made in SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

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On 2 occasions, once in Jackson Mississippi once in Birmingham, agents of this group tried to convert a peaceful march into a violent putsch on government offices. Both times they were headed off by responsible Negro leadership acting in time.

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One of the most chilling documents this writer has seen recently was a draft quote battle plan unquote discussed by SNCC and rejected by Negro leaders for this ...for use this Fall in Alabama.

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It advocated a march on Montgomery and quote nonviolent battle groups with their own insignia and flags. These quote ... Excuse me. ... these quote battle groups trained in street battle tactics were to cut Montgomery off from all communication with the outside world presumably to provoke nonviolent combat between Alabama and the United States.

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OK. Now, he goes on that's all right. What he does afterwards is very interesting, because what he does afterwards is cite a riot which happened in North Philadelphia and says that the whole riot was triggered off after a Negro was killed in self defense by a white man by one car which rode around through the streets with loud speakers on its top.

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And this one car probably was manned by unidentified irritants, irresponsible communist aliens. Now, the implication is, and what he goes on to say next, is that the whole nation could be also set off. And that the nation could be brought to a crisis, by some kind of counter position of the Federal Government-

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in some kind of city which is involved in itself in a .. in a .. in a political crisis.

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Now, it is true, and I think we have to realize this, that SNCC is involved in trying to set about just such a crisis.

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What's not true is that it's done by aliens or that it's done in a spirit which is contrary to whatever spirit you want to say pervades this country.

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Because what we have found out in the deep South is exactly this, that the deep South will not change, refuses to change, unless and until the Federal government makes a change. (Applause)

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That in fact, in the deep South, what they want and what they are asking for is just such a confrontation of Federal troops with local officials so that they can say that what has happened is that the Federal government is trying to take over.

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And in fact what we are trying to bring about in various parts of the deep South is just such a confrontation.

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We are trying to bring about the situation in the Federal which the Federal government must and will and can act to bring troops, if necessary, or certainly to bring Federal marshals and certainly to bring Federal presence to the degree that the local officials must capitulate and must give some substantive change in the situation in the South.

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We are trying to bring about just such a situation and it's important for us to understand that

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It's also important to understand that it's not a lunatic move. It's not a move by aliens,

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it's something that after two and a half years of hard struggle, we finally become convinced

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that nothing will change in the Deep South unless the federal government does move in just such a fashion.

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Now he goes on finally to say that, the cards are on the table for the '64 election,

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that the Negroes in effect have the power of wrecking or altering the nature of the two-party system in this country.

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And what he says is in effect that that's bad and the problem is that we believe that that's good.

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That is what we believe is that the two-party system as it functions now in this country doesn't work,

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because that's exactly why we're in the difficulty we're in now,

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and that it is a national crisis and the crisis right now is focused on Congress.

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It can equally well be focused on the administration.

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The problem is that, and we began to sense this just before Kennedy's assassination, the problem is

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that, any political administration in this country in order to bring about the real changes that need to be bring about - need to be brought about -

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must in effect put itself out of office, because in order to bring about these changes, in order to lay the ground for them,

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they have to alienate a considerable number of their support and their constituency, and no administration is ready to do this.

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So that what we are pushing for is just such a change

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The point where SNCC is - is that it has to realize that it's reaching a point where it has to stand up and be ready to say to itself and to the country what it is that it wants and how it is that it's going about it and not back down when the irresponsible charges are made and then prepare to defend why it thinks that this is the way it has to go about.

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I'd like to say just one other thing in another dimension completely because we're not only involved in some kind of political struggle, we're also involved in another more personal struggle.

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That is within ourselves we are fighting what Camus described as the micro which exists in each man.

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And there are many of us who as we talk and as we emphasize things in our meetings, emphasize this dimension of our struggle.

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And it's there. And there's a paper that's circulating around that Charlie Sharrod has written up which pinpoints some of the problems involved in this dimension.

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And I don't mean to cut it out.

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It's certainly that something that has to be faced all along.

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Certainly, it's something that we face every day out on the battlefield.

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Certainly George Greene, and MacArthur Cotton, and Jesse Harris, Frank Smith have to face by themselves the decision whether or not they're going to go into these small towns like Natchez and McComb and whether they're going to organize in these towns.

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And it's a decision they make among themselves, by themselves, and in a sense, nobody can make it for them because what's involved in that decision is the problem of overcoming.

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Like in the Resistance in the Nazi occupation, the problem was overcoming, the problem was getting to the point where you could

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say that you could make your decisions because you were no longer faced with the problem of whether you could overcome torture and death.

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Well, in these small towns down there you have to come to the point to know the limits within yourself,

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so that you can decide that you've overcome or can continually day by day overcome the problems of fear

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and make these decisions by yourself.

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And it's in a sense because we've been involved in making these decisions by ourselves in these lonely towns for the last two and a half years

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that we have, I think, gained the right to make the decision collectively as an organization vis-à-vis the country.

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That as just as we decided in these towns that this is the job that we had to do,

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and just as we decided individually that we had to overcome these fears about working,

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so as an organization now the problem and the time has come to decide collectively

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what it is and how we stand vis-à-vis the rest of the country and the other civil rights groups

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and to make that decision and stick to it.

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In that regard, we have probably two big problems to discuss, and I said this before.

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One problem is the question of free association

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and the question of the right of people to assemble and work and

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--they're people that we want to work with and who agree with our aims and what we're working for. And we have to reach the point where we deny that anyone who comes in to work with us can somehow subvert what we are doing because they are of a different persuasion than we are.

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What we simply have to face is that if we put all our cards on the table and that we discuss openly what it is that we're about, then I don't see how it is that these people can somehow subvert what we are doing.

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I think that we have to, as an organization, come to the point where in policy and in public we take an absolute stand on the right of people to associate with whom they please.

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Miss Baker won't mind if I use her name again, but she made a decision herself a while ago to work with the Southern Conference Educational Fund.

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And I never talked at length with her about her decision, but I had in mind that probably- somewhat was in the back of her mind was that this was the next frontier, or the one that needed to be moved to now.

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And certainly what we have to come to grips with is whether or not we're going to as an organization—-

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Speaker 1: lies always dormant in this country about people who have so-called alien ideas.

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And certainly it seems to me that where we have to come out is...

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that we have to- throw what little weight that we have...

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On the side of free association and the design of autonomy within our group to pick and chose those people whom we will work with on relevant criteria

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and that one of the criteria which is not relevant is that past political association and that what we have to do is then decide whether or not the people who want to work with and for us are people who are genuinely concerned with what we are about to do

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The other decision which we have to make is simply what I said before. It's that we have to discipline ourselves to the fact that in order to be effective, we have to become a well organized group of workers. People who are disciplined, people who know where they want to go, and people who are ready to pay the sacrifices that they have to pay in order to get there.

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And that as we discipline ourselves, we have to keep strongly in mind

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What it is that we are trying to work for, and that while we are not maybe with Plato, who is said to reason with the Gods, but rather with Ulysses who I'm told reasoned with the foxes.

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And what we are about is trying to within [[...]] and our limits, is to bring about certain changes which we believe to be fundamental and necessary to be requisites to other changes if they're gonna take place. And our problem for us as we've chosen it is not the big cities and juvenile delinquents.

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The problem as we've chosen it is the South and the power structures of the South and trying to change those with the hope that we will thereby perpetuate deeper and further changes in the national power structure so that the country can present a government which is able to give us some of our demands that we believe are right and just. Thank you.

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I would - We have been asked by the police, again, to ask these cars, ask all of these cars to park in the parking lot, uh on the side of the law school building, which is across the street. I will read from this notice, which says record of violations.

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Speaker 2: State: Georgia, license plate number: 180160. It's a - It's a ranch wagon, that's the description of the car. Well, Julian will please move his car. Will Julian Bonn please move his car?

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Speaker 2: Uh, next car is from Mississippi: HB3746, and it's a Falcon.

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Speaker 2: The next car is from Illinois. Number's MJ5399 and it's a Corvette.

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Speaker 2: The next car is from Massachusetts, and the number is E46994, it's a Chevrolet.

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Speaker 2: The next car is from Georgia again, tag number: 74874, it's a Chevrolet.

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Speaker 2: The - I've been asked to announce that at the end of this session all of those that are hungry may get your meal tickets at the back of the room.

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Speaker 2: You may get - You may get meal tickets at the back of the chapel. Uh? What? Oh, delegates!

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Speaker 2: And those who have made arrangements for meal tickets.

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Speaker 2: All those who have not registered should do so at this time, and - or I will - I've been asked also to announce that all workshop leaders, guest speakers, all workshop leaders, and guest speakers should register at the desk downstairs. I--

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Speaker 1: That's the end of the morning session, and we will, we should be back here - Wait! Hold it! We should be back here promptly at 1:15; if you're not, we're starting the program.

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{Unknown speaker asks question} That was perhaps not directly related, but on the other hand, it's not completely unrelated either. How do you think that the assassination of President Kennedy will affect things? First, uh, the socialist party because it had a rough going in some points in its history and second the Negro drive which has also had a considerable rough going.

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Speaker 2: Well personally at this point, I don't know what you've got it, optimistic or what. I honestly don't think either that it's going to affect either very much. They will continue to have about the struggle ahead. I am very thankful that President Johnson has said as much as he has about Civil Rights and the civil rights bill.

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Speaker 2: As for the socialists, it doesn't matter. It is one of the adversities of life that Oswald, the presumed almost a certain assassin, was a psychopath of what he would call elect. The psychopathic nature of most people in the South is of the right and the racists.

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Speaker 2: And the general denunciation of these conditions that make such things possible in America is still an art.

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{Unknown speaker asks an inaudible question}

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Speaker 2: I'm awfully sorry, I'm getting old and somewhat deaf so you have to speak kinda loud.

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{Unknown speaker} You feel like the atmosphere of the racism among whites in the South uh contributed to uh the assassination?

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Speaker 2: In the general way, yes, the one that has no right to Mississippi. Of course, not one has no right just to know alter the racists and assassinate the president that seems pretty clear.

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Speaker 2: And for their sake, they ought to be tranquiled if none of their wild men [[?]]. But you must remember I've seen distributed people in New York a little pamphlet that begins on the outside in big letters "Kill" haven't any of you ever seen it? It's what I think it was issued but with no name on it by one of the offshoots of the American army. I'm not sure which one.

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Speaker 2: And on the back is a picture of a hand holding a noose. A hangman's noose. And it says for traitors. Kennedy should be impeached at the suggestion of this.

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Speaker 2: No lefties have done anything so mad, so crazy, so terrible. I live in Mississippi, and a lot of the time, when I [[?]] he thought that President Eisenhower or even later President Kennedy had called himself.

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Speaker 2: I was one of the people who would like to see President Eisenhower lead some children into that school in Arkansas. What happened to me in Mississippi that our men here know a great deal more than I. But I think it would've been great to have him go into Mississippi.

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{Unknown speaker asks question} You think that President Johnson will have any uh better luck against the word in beginning and understanding with Southern leaders that he they will accept and handle things that they would not accept.

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Speaker 2: [[Interrupting]] I think they may, because he is after all a Texan. And Texas has got a lot to make up for. Dallas is a disgrace, not so much the assassination of the president but the subsequent business was disgraceful.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's general record is pretty disgraceful. But I think that the great majority of the people want to repudiate it. I'm sure that this was an added spurt of President Johnson.

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Speaker 2: I like very well the tone of his - speaks to Congress and he speaks to the people. I'm quite hopeful, and I think - I even dare to hope that to some extent some feeling of regret and remorse will make people feel as a monument to Kennedy. We should have a civil rights bill, and a very strong one.

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Speaker 1: Any further questions?

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, and I think I owe these people for coming in and talking so much. It’s their show,

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and I would like to have you all know I’ve been in Mississippi and I’ve been elsewhere, and I want you all to know the enormous respect I have for SNCC. I’d like to see some of us White folk subjected to similar conditions and see if we’d do as well.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:18.000

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Speaker 1: I have one announcement. James Baldwin who was to have spoken this morning is grounded in New York and now will not be here until 1:30.

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Now I’d like to introduce the rest of the people on the platform behind me. I’ll introduce them all and then you may ask questions of each of them.

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Speaker 1: On my right is Frank Smith, who is a native of Newnan, Georgia, who directs our project in the 1st Congressional District in Mississippi and he has been in Mississippi for a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: Next to him is Marion Barry, a member of our coordinating committee and our executive committee, and the first chairman of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. He is from Knoxville, Tennessee.

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Next to him is Worth Long from Little Rock, Arkansas who directs our project in central Alabama with his base in Selma, Alabama.

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Next to him is William Hanson from Cincinnati, Ohio, who directs our project in south eastern Arkansas with its base in Pine Bluff.

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Next to Mr Thomas is John Lewis, our Chairman, who is from Troy, Alabama.

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Next to Mr Lewis is Robert Moses from New York City who directs our project in Mississippi.

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Behind Mr Lewis is Charles Gerard who directs our project in South West Georgia

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And behind me here is James Foreman our Executive Secretary and you may direct questions to each of them.

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Speaker 1: ...the statements of Professor of [[?]] in his enunciation of the lost state of Mississippi.

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You think this is a um an extremely important breakthrough or [[cough]]

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of his uh statements go [[?]] unheeded?

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think uh that that is an important breakthrough and that what's hoped for is that uh that the rest of the country will heed what he says.

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And that what you have down in Mississippi and I think is typical of other parts of the deep South is in fact they have a closed society

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and that the problem is broader than this just innovation, it's the problem of whether or not you can have in the deep South now an open society.

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And I'd like to say in connection with that in regard to the question about Kennedy's assassination that uh um

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Mississippi of course ran an election, in which the major theme in the past month and a half was K.O. the Kennedys.

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And that uh now the Kennedys are in fact K.O.ed and those billboards if you ride through the state are still up.

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Big billboards and they say, 'K.O. the Kennedys'.

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And the the theme of the election for both the Republicans and the Democrats were that the Kennedys are in fact a uh menace to the national political scene,

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and uh the administration and themselves have to go.

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And I think that that has a great deal to do with creating the kind of atmosphere in which somebody can get away with uh [[cough]] uh-

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[[cross talk]] pulling the trigger.
Speaker 4: [[cross talk]] May I butt in [[?]]

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if it isn't true but the main issue at election that re-election in Mississippi was which group hated Kennedy worst.

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Speaker 3: That's true and the uh the Republicans were saying that uh what they had to do was establish a two party system ah in order to act as, each party to act as segregation watchdogs over each other and to prevent the national administration from gaining control in Mississippi.

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The Democrats were saying was that what you needed was just one party for exactly the same reason that that was the only way to maintain control.

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Both of their themes was that they both uh could outdo the Kennedy brothers.

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[[Background noise]]
Speaker 1: -- also take it. In dear of the circumstance of the last great [[?]] Mr. Thomas pointed out to Thompton. [[?]] right statements to the new president.

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Speaker 1: As your organization and those you work with oppose to, call a, [[interruption]] at least unofficially, suspension or a moratorium on active demonstrations and protests or whether or view uh the best strategy.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'd like to let our chairman answer that question, but, and I might support what he says by saying that there's been no talk around here about any type of moratorium, but maybe he has something he'd want to say.

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Speaker 2: [[Side conversation]] Want me to go ahead?

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Speaker 2: There's been no discussion here on moratorium, nor has there been any discussion with his folks so far as we know of in any of the civil rights organizations. Now, nor has anyone approached us about calling a moratorium.

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Speaker 2: Uh, and we might just point out that it was very interesting that all over the TV, the government sent Henry Cabot Lodge to Vietnam Sunday night, even before the president was buried, uh, to continue the work of this country.

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Speaker 2: And, uh in addition to that, President Johnson delivered his message Wednesday about the state of the nation so that the government is not calling a moratorium.

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Speaker 2: And uh, so you know, not that we're gonna follow the government all the time, but I don't see where it's relevant for us to call a moratorium because Negros are still denied the right to vote.

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Speaker 2: We still can't go into some of these restaurants, just thirty miles from here! We will be segregated in parts of Virginia and parts of Maryland! In Cambridge, Maryland, you can't even enter a public accommodation place at this moment.

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Speaker 2: So that it would be sort of derelict on our part to call it a moratorium. What we would hope, would be that the segregationists would feel that they have a sense of responsibility to grab the demands for which the president lives.

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{Movement, person asking inaudible question}

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Unknown Speaker: Well, the question was the wide reaction to Mississippi to the president's death. Now, we don't have any real detail on that.

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Speaker 2: We did send uh one of uh field secretary's wife downtown in Jackson. He reported back that they, that the reaction was one of indifference, or suppressed joy.

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Speaker 2: Um, there's a report that uh um from Millsaps College of uh some of the students who expressed real sorrow, and some shame, for being harassed by some of their fellow students, as a report of one class uh.

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Speaker 1: ...youngsters who actually shouted and cheered, and I was reading in the paper where I guess it was a Minister from Dallas, Texas who was being berated in Dallas now for having reported that some students cheered them.

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But in Mississippi of course this was the reaction as we got it from people who were living in the wide community.

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The official reaction of course was that deep sympathy and regret.

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Probably the best thing they could've done would been to take off those billboard signs if they were really serious.

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Speaker 2: Um, I would like to say something about, in regards to that last question.

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I was in jail in Helena Arkansas. They came into, they sent a white trustee over, get us out and make us go to work.

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And myself and another one of SNCC worker John Bradford went outside and took us out standing next to the police station.

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And when the trustee came in to get us out, he says 'Hey boys the president's been shot,' and he had a grin on his face.

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And I looked at him and I said, 'What?'. And he said, 'The president [[inaudible]]