Behind the Apron Project: William Bourne Interview, April 15, 1997
Web Video Text Tracks Format (WebVTT)
WEBVTT
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:14.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Today's April the 15th, 1997. Today's interview is with William Bournes in Prince Frederick, Calvert County, Maryland. Thank you.
00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:16.000
[SILENCE]
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Ok, what is your name?
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.000
William Bourne: William.
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Your last name?
William Bourne: Bourne. B-O-U-R-N-E.
Shelia Montague Parker: And what is your birthday?
William Bourne: April 3rd
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:28.000
Shelia Montague Parker: And your present add[[--]]
William Bourne: 1918.
Shelia Montague Parker: Your present address?
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:33.000
William Bourne: Saint Leonards.
Shelia Montague Parker: Saint Leonard.
Shelia Montague Parker: Where were you born?
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.000
William Bourne: Narlon Creek.
Shelia Montague Parker: Where at Narlon Creek?
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:45.000
William Bourne: Well, ah, [[?]] Farm.
Shelia Montague Parker: Did you grow up on Bourne's Farm?
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.000
William Bourne: Bourne's Farm.
Shelia Montague Parker: Is that where you grew up?
00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:50.000
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. And your present address?
00:00:50.000 --> 00:01:10.000
William Bourne: Saint Leonards, [[?]] Road, house number 645.
Shelia Montague Parker: 645. Okay. What's your mother's and father's name?
William Bourne: My mother's name was Annie; Hal, which is my father's name was his before me.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.000
Shelia Montague Parker: You have any sisters and brothers?
00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.000
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Their names?
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.000
William Bourne: Well now! [[laughter]]
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:27.000
William Bourne: Harold Bourne, Lewis Bourne, Edward Bourne, Frank Bourne, Joseph Bourne; that's the boys.
00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:34.000
William Bourne: Girls: Mary Bourne, Martha Bourne, and Charleston.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Chelston?
00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:43.000
William Bourne: Charleston.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Is your sisters and brothers or your mother and father are they still living in [[--]]
00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:55.000
William Bourne: No, they're not.
Shelia Montague Parker: Your mother and father's not here.
William Bourne: No, my mother and father's not here.
Shelia Montague Parker: What about your sisters and brothers?
William Bourne: Ah, two. Three more brothers dead.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mmm hmm.
William Bourne: And one sister.
00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:13.000
Shelia Montague Parker: The one's that's living, are they living in this area or where do they live?
William Bourne: No, 2 of my sisters in Baltimore and brother in Baltimore, and one more brother [[??]] Calvert County.
00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:18.000
Shelia Montague Parker: The one that live in Calvert County, is he living on the property which you grew up on or
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:21.000
William Bourne: No.
00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:25.000
Shelia Montague Parker: No.
William Bourne: No.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Are you married?
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: And do you have children?
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: How many?
00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:31.427
William Bourne: Seven.
Shelia Montague Parker: Seven. And, their names?
William Bourne: [[laughs]][[?]]
00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:46.000
William Bourne: Olive [[Warren?]], Marlen, Gina and May, Clayton and Jack
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:47.000
00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:54.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. What do you remember most about where you grew up at, your family home?
00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:17.000
William Bourne: Well, when I was young played together. Most families around us, family closest that was your family, something like your family, your husband's family rather.
00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:33.000
We'd go together to [[Richmond?]] and another family around by the name of Curtis. Walt Curtis, Abbey Curtis, we all growed up together.
00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:41.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. Ah, what school did you attend?
William Bourne: Island Creek [[?]] School
00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:54.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. What do you remember most about school?
William Bourne: [[laughs]] Well, mostly playing ball with school boys.
00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:16.000
Ah, lots of [[concepts?]] and stuff like that.
Shelia Montague Parker: Did you walk to school or did the bus pick you up?
William Bourne: We walked. We walked to school.
Shelia Montague Parker: How far did you have to walk?
William Bourne: Oh, my God. But. Three miles.
00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:23.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Three miles. Who were some of your teachers?
William Bourne: Let's see now.
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:34.469
I think Miss Asten. And my cousin, Rita Bourne, she taught me.
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:49.000
William Bourne: Miss Brown was another teacher. Dat's enough, dat's enough.
Shelia Montague Parker: Who were some of your classmates?
00:04:49.000 --> 00:05:13.000
William Bourne: Boys by the name of John Anston, ah, Walt Curtis, Lois Mason, Laydon Johnston, Albert Curtis,
00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:24.000
I'm lost [[laughs]]
Shelia Montague Parker: OK! [[laughs]] What church did you attend when you were young?
William Bourne: Brookes's.
Shelia Montague Parker: Brookes?
William Bourne: Brookes's.
Shelia Montague Parker: So you have you been in Brookes all your life?
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:33.000
William Bourne: Yeah, all my life.
Shelia Montague Parker: Who was the pastor at Brooks when you first started there?
00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:52.000
William Bourne: [[Long silence]] He was named Reverend Brooks. Reverend Brooks. Lord! Oh!
Shelia Montague Parker: Who's the pastor there now?
00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:13.000
William Bourne: [[Bayleon?]]
Shelia Montague Parker: When you were young, what activities were you in in church? Was there any particular organizations or groups that you were part of?
William Bourne: Oh we used to have a little quartet. Me, Landon Johnson, my cousin, Albert Chase, Lois Mason sung most in the quartet
Shelia Montague Parker: What was the name of the quartet?
00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:21.000
William Bourne: [[?]]Four
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. What organizations are you with now?
00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:35.000
William Bourne: Well, I'm not in any church now because I'm all broke up, I don't get to no...
Shelia Montague Parker: I'm sorry. When you first started and now, what changes have you seen come about, in the church, or is there any changes?
00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:41.480
William Bourne: Huh. It's uh, changed a lot. A great change, I don't know
00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:54.000
William Bourne: They had one changes then. The pastor had most to say at the churches.
Shelia Montague Parker: And it wasn't that way years ago?
William Bourne: No. Hmmm. Yes, the trustees.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:02.000
They took care all the other side of the church. When I was little the pastor take care of everything.
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:15.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Um, when you got older, when you decide to leave home, where did you go?
00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.000
William Bourne: Where'd I go?
Shelia Montague Parker: Yes. Did--What age did you leave home?
00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.000
William Bourne: I got married when I was 21, but I didn't go nowhere.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:27.000
William Bourne: I mean, my father told me you're 21 now, you suit yourself.
Shelia Montague Parker: Huh, huh
William Bourne: But I got married at 21.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:34.000
William Bourne: But I still stayed around home.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. So you moved from your parents' home to your own home?
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:42.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Um, uh, what was your first job?
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:50.000
William Bourne: First job I had was shuckin oysters.
Shelia Montague Parker: Shuckin oysters?
William Bourne: Shuckin oysters. Right there at [[Bi-8?]].
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Do--
William Bourne: I mean after I come in the [[East?]]
00:07:50.000 --> 00:08:00.000
I started shuckin oysters when I was 15 years old.
Shelia Montague Parker: 15
William Bourne: mm-hmm
Shelia Montague Parker: Did you start shuckin to support the family, just to have extra money for yourself?
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:06.000
William Bourne: Nah, I started shuckin took care, have to took care of my father and mother.
00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:15.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.[[long silence]][[radio playing faintly in the background]]
00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:19.000
You're married. What is your wife name?
William Bourne: Henrietta Jackson.
Shelia Montague Parker: Henrietta Jackson.
00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:27.000
William Bourne: Yeah
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Do your children live nearby in the community, or have they moved away?
William Bourne: Well, some of em do.
00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Have you, have your family ever farmed?
William Bourne: I farmed myself.
Shelia Montague Parker: You did?
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:38.000
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. What age?
William Bourne: Oh, I been farmin since I was 15.
00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:44.000
Shelia Montague Parker: For yours--, okay, so you're farming at 15 you farming for someone else.
William Bourne: Yeah, I'm farmin, at my father.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:50.000
Shelia Montague Parker: For your father-- He owned his own farm?
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, ok. So you still have the family farm?
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:57.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay, who's on the farm now?
William Bourne: Just me.
William Bourne: This is where you--
William Bourne: This is where I farm at now.
00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:09.000
Shelia Montague Parker: How many acres you have here?
William Bourne: Well, I got 10 acres here, but I only work 4 of em here and I work 2 over in Clearwater.
00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Well, what do you raise?
William Bourne: Tobacco.
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:25.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Tobacco? Oh, ok. So, is, tobacco your main source of income or the oyster work?
William Bourne: Well, tobacco and oysters togethers, that's what I make my livin on.
00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:34.938
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. Ah, and you don't own any livestocks?
William Bourne: No.
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. You just raise tobacco.
William Bourne: Tobacco
Shelia Montague Parker: OK
00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:43.000
Shelia Montague Parker: And, what are the jobs that you have besides on the farm and tobacco work?
00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.000
William Bourne: None.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:45.000
Shelia Montague Parker: That's it?
William Bourne: That's it.
00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:53.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. [[laughs]] What do your children think about you shucking oysters? Have they ever--
00:09:53.000 --> 00:10:06.000
William Bourne: Well, no. No.
Shelia Montague Parker: -- gone with you to shuck oysters?
William Bourne: Um, now let me say, I took care of 'em all my life by shucking oysters and workin on the farm. But, now adays, they'd rather for me to cut 'em up and eat.
00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK
William Bourne: And they'd rather not do it.
Shelia Montague Parker: Did any of them shuck?
William Bourne: Ah, no.
Shelia Montague Parker: No. OK
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:18.000
William Bourne: But they've had shucked 'em.
Shelia Montague Parker: They had?
William Bourne: Yeah. [[?]] shucked oysters
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:30.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. Ah. Where did you shuck oysters at? What was your first job at the Oyster House?
William Bourne: Magninet
Shelia Montague Parker: Magninet?
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:38.000
William Bourne: Magninet at Parker Wharf
Shelia Montague Parker: Parkers Wharf?
William Bourne: Parkers Wharf.
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. How many oyster houses in the area now?
00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:46.000
William Bourne: Only one
Shelia Montague Parker: That's
William Bourne: That's the s...
Shelia Montague Parker: Denton's
William Bourne: Yeah,
Shelia Montague Parker: Denton's
William Bourne: Denton's
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:54.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. Was it more than one when you first started?
William Bourne: Yeah. Two
Shelia Montague Parker: Two. Was that Denton's and...
William Bourne: Denton's and Magninet over at Parker Wharf
00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:07.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. When you, ah, shuck oysters each day, what do, I mean, what do you do first? What do you need in order to shuck oysters?
William Bourne: Huh?
Shelia Montague Parker: What do you need in order to shuck oysters? What type of tool or equipment?
00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:14.000
William Bourne: Well, you need a knife, apron, that's all.
00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:19.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. When you shuck do you stand, sit, or what?
William Bourne: Stand.
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. What's your hours?
00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:26.000
William Bourne: Ah, we only do four hours now.
Shelia Montague Parker: Four hours.
William Bourne: About four hours.
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:33.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Why's that?
William Bourne: Well, ah, we used to shuck all day, say 'bout ten hours a day.
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:46.000
They finally got too much on the shelfs, span that and all, so they cut it back to half a day. And now we only doin four hours, cause we don't get that many oysters. For us it's [[?]].
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:53.000
Shelia Montague Parker: What's the racial make up? Is it all black, white or? What's the racial make up?
00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:06.070
William Bourne: Well, now, it's Mexicans. First it was mixed, white and black.
Shelia Montague Parker: When you first started, how many black shukers was there?
William Bourne: Oh, my God
00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000
William Bourne: I'd say around, 70, 75.
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. And now, how many is it?
00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:23.000
William Bourne: They look tall, probably eight of them that are black.
00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Eight?
William Bourne: Mm-hmm. [positive]
Shelia Montague Parker: And how many Mexicans is it?
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.000
William Bourne: Fifteen.
Shelia Montague Parker: Fifteen?
William Bourne: Mm-hmm. [positive]
00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:41.000
Shelia Montague Parker: What's the, the atmosphere, the morale like? Is it like a family-type atmosphere, or do you just come in and do your job and go home? Is that- or,
00:12:41.000 --> 00:13:02.000
William Bourne: Well, you come, we shuck about a gallon or a pound. Or rather, still a gallon-- it used to be shucking by the pound. And you'd come, grab a bucket and you'd go to work.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm.
William Bourne: And uh, 12 o'clock gonna be ???
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm.
00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:10.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Why do you shuck by pounds now, and not the gallons?
William Bourne: Ah, why, because we work that way. [Chuckles]
Shelia Montague Parker: [[Chuckles]]. Okay.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:17.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Ah, what's the conversation? Do you guys talk, sing, what? [[William Bourne clears his throat.]] Or there's no conversation?
00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:35.000
William Bourne: Mostly talk, but it's all. When we used to shuck, how To then be, went and, left town, left ties, and shuck less.
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Is the oysters plentiful now?
William Bourne: No.
Shelia Montague Parker: They're not as plentiful now?
William Bourne: [interrupting] No [with emphasis]
Shelia Montague Parker: As they was?
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:48.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Why was that?
William Bourne: Well, I don't know. They died out.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm.
William Bourne: I don't know the reason, but they died out.
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:53.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Do you think that's because you shuck year-round now?
William Bourne: No, uh.
00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:07.000
William Bourne: No, I don't think that.I think it's just um, I think it's got something to do with the fertilizer stuff we use on the farm. They want to wash that into the water.
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:14.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh [listening]
William Bourne: I think it has something to do with the oysters and plants bleaching. [?]
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm. Who taught you how to shuck oysters?
00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:24.000
William Bourne: Myself. [Laughs.]
Shelia Montague Parker: You taught yourself?
William Bourne: At least look out for other people. There got to be old people.
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:33.000
My father, he still oystered. And he'd bring them home, and he would shuck them and we'd watch him, then we'd take him like a class and start it up.
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:38.000
Shelia Montague Parker: How long did it take you to catch on?
William Bourne: Well, just about a half a day.
00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:44.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Yeah, okay. Who's the fastest shucker at the Oyster House? Clam or oyster shucker.
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:50.000
William Bourne: Hadley.
Shelia Montague Parker: Harry?
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:14:50.000 --> 00:15:02.000
Shelia Montague Parker: His wife Christine is also there. How fast is she?
William Bourne: She, she's faster than I'm fast.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. [[Laughs]]
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Which-
William Bourne: Also brought his mixed daughter up.
Shelia Montague Parker: Her daughter?
William Bourne: Yeah, she learns fast.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Uh, how fast are you?
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:15.000
William Bourne: Well, I used to be fast.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
William Bourne: With my age, but now I'm slow. The older you get, slower you shuck.
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:24.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. How about, say, dampness of the Oyster House affected you health-wise? Or... Does that pose a problem for you?
William Bourne: Well, yes.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:29.000
William Bourne: Off right, I'll be alright then.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:35.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Who were some of your, um. Who were some of the other shuckers there, besides yourself? Black shuckers.
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:47.000
William Bourne: Hadley, Bill Gate, Theresa Wolf. Uh, Jodette.
00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:53.000
William Bourne: [[Pause.]] That's about all there is of the black ones.
00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:57.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Uh, women. Uh, okay, that's the oyster shuckers.
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:04.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Is it the same pay for men as it is for women?
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-kay.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:11.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Who'd usually keep count of your, of the amount- of the amount of oysters you shuck?
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Is it you or it is a time-keeper, or
William Bourne: No, a timekeeper keeps it.
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:23.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Is the timekeeper black, or white, or Mexican?
William Bourne: Mexican.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm. Okay.
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:28.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Um, are there many young people there?
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:35.691
William Bourne: Well, no. I don't know how old the next one is, 'cause they haven't been there often
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.000
William Bourne: I would, too. ???
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:54.000
Shelia Montague Parker: They, when you first started, the number of workers that were there then and the number that's there now, how do you maybe see the Orchard House ten years from now since there's not a lot of young people coming in?
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.000
[[Silence]]
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.000
William Bourne: Well, I don't think there're gonna be no one seventeen years from now.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.000
Shelia Montague Parker: You don't?
William Bourne: No.
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:07.000
You don't think that he would bring the Mexi-- would bring more Mexicans in or--
William Bourne: Well, I--
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Or there would be less Blacks there
William Bourne:
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:23.000
William Bourne: Well, if they do, I don't think he'd be shucking oysters. I don't think he would now, because Austin's only fun. [[Pause.]] They gon'-- The less and less there be of them. I'm just real with it. It ain't nausea, it's just ??. And that's where we all it off
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:28.000
All our [[??]] it's just real. Ain't no ordinary ??. All of them gone.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.000
Shelia Montague Parker: How did you used to bring the oysters in?
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.000
Well, he'd truck 'em. On a black truck now.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:37.000
His own truck, or--
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:48.000
William Bourne: No. Uh, sometimes his truck ran good, sometimes we had to take them up from the truck and sell them. His truck tried to trade them.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:57.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Uh, what's the rela- what's the relationship between you and the boss? Is he pretty good to work with, or is he just
00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:03.000
William Bourne: Well, he, you know, he couldn't hang with us.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
William Bourne: Don't have no troubles with him.
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:10.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Did you ever enter into any of the um, oyster-shucking competitions?
William Bourne: No.
Shelia Montague Parker: No? [[Laughs.]]
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:20.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Is there any type of, um, oyster-shuckers' association, union, trade associations, or anything?
William Bourne: Um, nah.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.000
Shelia Montague Parker: What do you like most about shucking oysters?
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:29.000
William Bourne: Well, it does ?? a mind to it.
00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:41.630
[[Silence]]
William Bourne: Um, when I even shuck 'em. Right now, they, you know, they're not dead, shucking oysters. You can shuck, um, four, five gallons in the morning. And, uh
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.000
WILLIAM BOURNE: You get the, you get um, nine dollars a gallon. It's not dead.
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:55.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Um, what do you dislike about shucking?
WILLIAM BOURNE: Uh, dislike huh?
Shelia Montague Parker: Yes [[Laughs]]
William Bourne: Well, [[Pause]]
00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:01.000
William Bourne: Uh, when you get them small ones,
Shelia Montague Parker: [[Chuckles]] Okay.
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: What, what changes have you seen come about over the years? Uh, anything anywhere from the way the oysters was put on the table, to, uh, delivered to you, to
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:20.000
William Bourne: Oh yeah, well, the, the way they're on the table, they're not put in there, they're put on the baskets.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:35.000
And now they put on a conveyor. And it would come and all you'd gotta do is dump 'em, and come over to the table. And you'd dump 'em. They'd break and wheel 'em in with wheelbarrows, on a [[grade gain??]]
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:43.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Is there any, um, white workers there?
William Bourne: In the packing room, yeah
Shelia Montague Parker: In the packing room. About how many?
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.000
William Bourne: Three, and not many.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm [positive] Okay.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:55.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Um, how had the arrival of the Mexican workers changed the environment around there, or is there a change?
00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:03.000
William Bourne: Uh, No change at all that.
Shelia Montague Parker: No change?
William Bourne: Mm [thinking], nope.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm [positive], okay. [[Silence]]
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:09.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay, um, let's get back to your home life.
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:20.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Uh, what are some of the things you remember about growing up? What are some of the values that your parents have instilled in you? What do you remember most about what they've always told you? "Don't do this-- do that"
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:35.000
William Bourne: Well, they had particularly [[??]] When we all got home from school, we all had something to do.
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm-hmm [agreeing]
William Bourne: But now, children go home, and now, they don't have anything to do. Other than streaking around the street.
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:48.000
When we come home, we had to feed the chickens, get in wood, milk the cows, feed the hogs[[?]], and go down one of those roads to the butcher house and get into 'em.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:56.000
Now, children come home quick, eat the supper, or eat the lunch, [[?]]
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000
We had to work when we get home.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.000
Shelia Montague Parker: How had working at the Oyster House benefited your family?
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:23.000
William Bourne: Well, talkin' for ourselves, I reckon, you know, of course now it is better because, [[providers]], we had to cut right [[?]] 10 to 15 years. But going to the [[provider?]] I had to admit it was awesome
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:41.000
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. So working at the Oyster House had to help you maybe buy your home,
William Bourne: Yeah.
Shelia Montague Parker: or send your kids to school
William Bourne: Yeah
Shelia Montague Parker: OK. What are some of the other... I think I might have asked you this before. What are some of the other jobs you have done over the years?
00:21:41.000 --> 00:22:36.080
William Bourne: Well. I [[?]] Montgomery County worked for [[?]]. I worked there a whole winter. and Cattle Cliff, I worked Cattle Cliff a couple years.
Shelia Montague Parker: What did you do at Cattle Cliff.
William Bourne: Labor
Shelia Montague Parker: Mm hm, okay. Uhh, give me some more information in reference to working at the Oyster House, I mean, um, shucking or what you need to, other things that you might need, for example, me if I’m just coming in, what advice would you give me as a new shucker?
William Bourne: Well I [?]
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:58.000
William Bourne: If you come out of New York, well, that's a place I would be needed. And if you was to take your time shucking, if you just let, just take your time, then there's. If you don't shuck, about a half gallon a day, you just take your time, and shuck them and don't. The main is, that'd cost you. If you cut them, you gonna bleed.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:04.000
You're losing weight, but if you're shucking, oh, you're gonna hold your pounds.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:09.000
William Bourne: Take your time, don't make a fool out of yourself.
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: You said the, uh, oyster bleed.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:23.000
William Bourne: Yeah, if you cut in, and you see it's got water inside, look inside of me, and you cut 'em there, you bleed. You let that water run away.
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:30.000
Shelia Montague Parker: So is that, once you cut it and it bleed, is it no good, or-
William Bourne: Oh, yes, it's still good.
Shelia Montague Parker: It's still.
William Bourne: It's still good, but it don't count as fast.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
William Bourne: It don't count as bad.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, okay. What are some of the activities you and your parents, and uh, sister and brothers did together?
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.000
[Pause]
Shelia Montague Parker: What family activities did you
00:23:42.000 --> 00:24:01.000
William Bourne: Oh, the Family Union. Family Union park How we Come up we have to listen to them old folks and do what they say to do
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:32.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Do you find that it’s different today?
William Bourne: Oh yes.
Shelia Montague Parker: How so?
William Bourne: You can’t tell a child what to do, I can’t tell your child how to live. When I come along I come up to the store, my mother sent me up to the store to buy I ain’t get what I want come up store. If I stand round there and some old folk's there he tell me something he doesn’t ….. and I have to do what they say to do. But now, ….. you can’t tell a child that.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:45.000
Shelia Montague Parker: That’s so true. [laugh] Uhh, what were some of the uhh, other activities that you guys did together as a family? Sunday activities besides going to church?
00:24:45.000 --> 00:25:04.000
William Bourne: Oh, we go different places different houses, played games, sometime played dominoes, [?] dominoes, on a Sunday evening, sat down played domino else, we played [get together played] played baseball, [?like [?] do?]
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Do you remember your grandparents?
William Bourne: No, not, uh nuh-uh. Don't got 'em no more. [?]
00:25:12.000 --> 00:26:01.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. What were some of the family remedies that your mom would use when um, you and your sisters and brothers would get sick? Medical remedies, ‘cause doctors was that not easily at hand as it is today?
William Bourne: Ohh. I remember my mother used to make a tea out of uh, cottonweed, for cold.
Shelia Montague Parker: Cottonweed?
William Bourne: Cottonweed. You go out [and get a [shoot?] sometimes make a tea of it, I guess for cold. Also a [? ...ball] to keep the [moth?] off the [?] on ride the side of it, keep the sun[?] on, [she ate that ball off the?] she’d make a [soup?] of it, for cold.
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:12.000
Shelia Montague Parker: You say cotton weed? I didn’t know they uh,
William Bourne: Cottonweed.
Shelia Montague Parker: ...had cotton here in Calvary County
William Bourne: No, ‘cause it’s a weed called cotton.
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, it’s a weed called cotton. Oh, okay.
William Bourne: Yeah, a weed called cottonweed.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, okay. When did you first start uh workin’ in tobacco fields, plantin’ tobacco
William Bourne: Oh, [?…..] nine years old.
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:46.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. You would just plant them or…?
William Bourne: I’d go [?] different people [PAUSE] We had plant by hand. These too. Go for [corn?]
00:26:46.000 --> 00:27:01.220
Shelia Montague Parker: Is there a particular type of uniform you need for uh, shucking oysters or you just wear your regular uniform
William Bourne: No, your regular uniform
Shelia Montague Parker: You need an apron or…?
William Bourne: A apron and a knife that's all you need.
Shelia Montague Parker: Uhh, what’s the [END]
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Wages for a pound, you were paid by the pound?
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.000
William Bourne: Yeah. A dollar 5 cents a pound.
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:17.000
Shelia Montague Parker: 1 dollar 5 cents a pound. Okay. And who is the owner of Denton Seafood?
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:20.000
William Bourne: Who was the-? Who the owner-?
Shelia Montague Parker: Who was the owner? Mmhmm.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.000
William Bourne: Uh, well it was, uh, Gus Darrell [?].
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:23.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Darrell?
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.000
William Bourne: Darrell. That was before him [?]
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Mmhmm. Was he - was he the owner when you first started there?
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.000
William Bourne: Oh no. Warren Denton.
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Warren Denton.
William Bourne: Mmhmm.
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.000
Shelia Montague Parker: So how long have you been working for Denton?
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.000
[SILENCE]
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.000
William Bourne: Over sixty - sixty four years.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Sixty four?
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay - ah, do you work just part-time now or do you work full-time?
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.000
William Bourne: Oh, no, I work part-time.
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:49.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Mmhmm. Okay.
[SILENCE]
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Mmkay. Are you the longest uh working - have you - have you worked the longest at Denton?
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:00.000
William Bourne: Yeah, I'm the longest one there now.
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Gosh, and - and besides you, who - who else is there that was there when you first started out?
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.000
William Bourne: Uhm.
[SILENCE]
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.000
William Bourne: Theresa Cruz [?}. A girl by the name of Theresa Cruz [?].
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. How old is Theresa?
[SILENCE]
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.000
William Bourne: About sixty. I'd say - I think about sixty, yeah.
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. [tape skip?]
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:27.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Who were some of the other workers when you first started besides Blondo?
00:28:27.000 --> 00:29:03.000
William Bourne: Blondo Mason [?], his brother Lawrence. I had two brothers there, Louis and Edward, oh I could name them all, Tom Wright, George Wright, uh, [?], [?], I worked with a bunch up there. When I was there, I guess he had somewhere around seventy-five, eighty there.
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:04.000
Shelia Montague Parker: '75?
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.000
William Bourne: Hmm.
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Hmm. Do you drive yourself there or is there a bus that picks you up -
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.000
William Bourne: No - I catch the - I walk up through and I catch the highway [?].
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.000
[SILENCE]
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:23.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Gosh. Uh. I meant to ask you about the Mexican workers. How did they - how did they usually come in? Did they drive or- ?
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:35.000
William Bourne: No. He - he hired a bus to go get them. Pick them up. Because they lived - he rents houses for them. They're living in them houses he rent.
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.000
Shelia Montague Parker: I know there's one by the parsonage. [?]
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:49.000
William Bourne: That's right. One up there, up on the store, up on the hill, in that trailer, I don't know if you've ever seen that trailer up on the hill, as you cut through, they live there.
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, okay. Is that near his house? Is it-
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:58.000
William Bourne: Yes, yes, near his house.
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay.
William Bourne: There's some in there. They've got two houses [?} they've got some there.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Are they here year-round or do they just come in when -
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:06.000
William Bourne: No, they come and go. Uh -
[SILENCE]
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:23.000
William Bourne: Like a - summer that there last month, I think, five of them left. There's five more going to leave on 28th [?}, I think. So, when they leave, there's some more coming. Because he's going to start picking crabs.
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Oh, okay. So they shuck crabs also?
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:26.000
William Bourne: They shuck crabs, too.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:30.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Gosh. They work as day hands, they shuck oysters.
William Bourne: Mmhmm.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.000
Shelia Montague Parker: They pick crabs.
William Bourne: Yeah.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.000
Shelia Montague Parker: What other work are they - the Mexicans used for?
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.000
William Bourne: Well there's oysters, clams and crabs.
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:44.000
Shelia Montague Parker: Okay. Gosh. Okay.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:43.140
[tape sounds]
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:45.552
