Black Expressive Culture Narrative Stage: Arlene Mills Ultrasound; Groove Phi Groove

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Bill Wiggins: I wonder if we could uh, well first while you get yourselves together, we're looking at a particular type of music which many would say has its roots in Philadelphia.

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Bill Wiggins: They tend to trace the origins back to a talented Black minister by the name of Charles Albert Tindley (--)
Arlene Mills: That's right.

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Bill Wiggins: Who was a pastor of a Methodist Church there at Tindley Temple ( -- ) [[Cross talk]]
Arlene Mills: Tindley Temple, Broad and Fitzwater.
Bill Wiggins: ( -- ) in Philadelphia, early 1900s.

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Bill Wiggins: And, of course in 1920, Thomas Dorsey caught the flame and has carried it - James Cleveland, Al Green, etc. I'm going to, I'm Bill Wiggins from Indiana University.

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Bill Wiggins: I'm going to try to say as little as possible and let these people talk. I wonder first if we could - uh, Arlene, if you could just introduce the group, or at least have them introduce themselves. They seem to be grown.

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Arlene Mills: They are grown and I think they can introduce themselves, starting on my left.
David Winslow: Ok, David Winslow.
Bill Wiggins: Uh, give us a little something about you Dave, what you've done, you know...

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{Unknown speaker} [[laughter]]
David Winslow: Well, I started playing piano around the age of 14. I took an interest in it, and since then I've ( -- )

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{Unknown speaker} Hey Dave, why don't you take it [[inaudible]] better.

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David Winslow: Since then, I've traveled extensively and played for a number of groups, and I think the greatest thing that I did was when I went overseas with a group for about 4 or 5 years.

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David Winslow: And we did Gospel, and to see how they really appreciate Gospel is really a sight to see, cuz they don't have it that often. And I think that was the greatest thing, to me, that the Lord allowed me to do.

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David Winslow: And playing for a number of groups in the city, I now play for the Philadelphia Men's Choir of the James Cleveland Gospel Music Workshop of America, and other than that I'm more or less freelancing.

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[[Cross Talk]]
Arlene Mills: Yeah okay.
Bill Wiggins: Okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: Are you doing alright?
Speaker 2: Oh, I have a group of my own, I forgot! [Laughter] The David Winslow singers and they're doing pretty good right now.
Speaker 1: Ok. {SPEAKER name ="Speaker 3"} Next. {SPEAKER name ="Bill Speakes"} My name is Bill Speakes and I'm the drummer for the Ultrasounds. I also play a couple other instruments, but yeah. Nothing too great. [Laughter] {SPEAKER name ="Lisa Speakes"} My name is Lisa Speakes, I'm a singer with the Ultrasounds. I'm also a musician I play for my church [?} Baptist church in Philadelphia. I sung with a few other groups in Philadelphia, but now I'm just primarily with the Ultrasounds. {SPEAKER name ="Ethel Smith"} Good afternoon, I am Ethel Smith. I am also a singer of the Ultrasound. I am the sister of Evangelia Sarline Mills. And I've basically sang all my life. [Laughs] And, um, I just enjoy, I think my most rewarding experience at this point with singing gospel is being able to minster, through song to someone, that-. You know it's always something that you could say that lifts someone else's spirits,or something that they've been needing to hear. And that's where I get my greatest satisfaction in singing gospel to an audience. {SPEAKER name ="Speaker 1"} Ok... Yeah we'll get the back row now. [Laughter] {SPEAKER name ="Crystal McR..."}[Crystal McGruder] My name is Crystal McR..[Crystal McGruder]. I am also a musician, a singer, a song writer. I play for a number of groups in Philadelphia. Uh huh, I played for some, and I play for some now. I don't have much to say, I don't know what to say! This is my first time, so y'all have to bear with me. OK? [Laughs] {SPEAKER name ="Speaker 1"} That's alright. We're saving the best for last, and now we will ask the leader of the group, a um, very, who's had a very distinguished gospel singing career to tell us who she is and what she is about. Holly? {SPEAKER name ="Arlene Mills"} Well, first of all, at this point I'm Arlene Mills and I'm pastoring at the Celestial Tabernacle Church of God in Philadelphia. And uh, I started in gospel music at the age of eleven, actually. When I was six years old I was being groomed to be a concert pianist. And by the time I was eleven years old I looked at my mother and I said, "That's not it, nah, that's not it." And my mother said to me and said, "What do you that's not it?" I said, "That's not the kind of music I want to play. So, we talked with my teacher, and my teacher told my mother that if I didn't want to be a concert pianist I would not achieve that. And so he recommended me to, uh, another music teacher who was a woman. And when we went there she asked me what I wanted to play, and I said I wanna play, at that time I didn't know about being a Christian, I only knew about religious stuff. So, I said I wanted to play religious music. So, she handed me a Baptist hymn book which houses a lot of uh, Charles Tindley's hymns that he wrote. And I turned to, I will never forget, 'Jesus Keep me Near the Cross' and I began to play that particular hymn. And when I finished I was waiting on the teacher to say something. Good, bad, indifferent. And it was silence. And when I looked around, the tears were streaming down her face. And she said to my mother, 'I can't teach her what she already has.' And so I started playing for churches. First church I played for was a great aunt, and her little gospel chorus. And I started playing for them and throughout my years I majored in music in school but I only did it so that I would- might be able to impart something to someone else. Because I really wasn't interested in learning what they had to teach as far as theory and practice was concerned. But I found it to be very helpful. I wasn't singing at that time, I was only playing. And then as I moved on I started to play for little groups and, uh, that were singing and I wound up playing for a group called 'The Daughters of Zion,' and it was with this group that I did my first solo bit. And, uh, I'll never forget it, after I'd sang this song, the song became requested quite often, and it had been a song that was sung by the Caravans. Um...

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What the song was but anyhow, they said I sound like I was singing a love song, a bedroom song, and so everywhere I went they would request [[laughter]] for me to do this particular song. [[song playing in background]] And, uh, like in all things, uh, it got so until the leader of the group decided: "wait a minute, she's getting too much publicity." So they tried to squash me and tell me I couldn't sing anymore.

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It was at this time there was a young man who we used to laugh at when he tried to play. And uh. Because he was not a musician actually but he would bam on the piano and he would try to, you know, and he was [[laughing]]. And in some holiness churches it didn't matter what you played, as long as you was, you know, playing.

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And uh. So this is what he was doing [[coughing]] and at this time that he came to me and said: I'm forming a group would you like to be a part? And I said yes. No, first I said let me think about it because I did have children at the time that I was raising. I had gotten married and has these babies, you know, and I was carrying them on the hip and dragging them by the hand and, you know, everywhere that I went. So then finally I said: yes.

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I was getting tired of this group I was playing for because they weren't giving me, and I found out I loved to sing, and they weren't giving me an opportunity so I joined up with Johnny Thompson. And we began to sing, um, it was I and several guys. When we first organized, I was the only girl in the group and then he changed up and had got two girls and two guys until finally we winded up with all gals and just him.

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And we were pretty good, you know, we were a really hard-hitting group. And so the Lord did bless, finally, and opened a door whereby we were afforded an opportunity to travel across seas and to go to the European countries. Of course, that was exciting to me. Um, at that time I really didn't have a lot of inspiration. My inspiration basically came from the angelic singers, who was an old group. And I remember the Ward singers and the Davis sisters, the Dewdrop sing- the original Dewdrop singers - who did not come out of the fire baptized holiness church.

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And they were the groups that would come together every fourth Monday night, for joy night. Now that was originated back there in the early 40s. Around 1940 or 41. When joy night was originated in Philadelphia and I would live for that fourth Monday night because of the music that came fourth. At that time it was not a competing thing, it was just because people wanted to come together.

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They did not come together to compete. But as I moved on in the Gospel feel, I learned that people were more or less in it to compete against one another. And so when the opportunity of going across seas presented itself, it was like something new, it was refreshing. And as David has said, we have found that, in traveling over in the European countries, the people there who actually decide to make a change in their lives and to accept Christ in their lives really live differently from the people that say they love the Lord here, in the States.

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And it was an experience for us to watch how these people really worshiped the Lord and praised him. Up until that point, I really was not in tune with the praise that we should be giving the Lord, and I learned how from the people, really, in Sweden. When you say, Sweden was the country that really taught what it really meant to give your whole self to the Lord.

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And we had some dynamite, spiritual experiences while we were in Sweden. And I believe that was the turning point for me. Even though, before that, I knew the Lord - at least I thought I did. I had been in the church all my life. I thought I was going to heaven because I went to church on Sunday. But I found out through this ministry in song, that each song holds a special message for somebody that sits in that audience. And so I became very much aware at that - much more aware - at that point about that point of what the ministry in song really meant.

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And I came back to Philadelphia with a different outlook on my Christian living. It was at that point the Lord started to deal with my heart, and I began to look at the group that I was with. And even though we talked about the Lord and dealt with each other's problems, and that kind of thing, there was something that was missing.

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And about 1977, I think, was my last trip across seas with the Johnny Thompson Singers. I came out from that group and for about a year I remained obsolete; I did nothing actually, stopped singing. One day, while sitting, a voice spoke and said, "You need to sing. Don't stop singing." And so a group was formed. At that time we were called The Sounds of Joy.

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And we really got together just to do a program for somebody who wanted some singers. And we went along like that and we decided to change the name to Ultrasound. And when Ultrasound, we worked together for a little while and that group decided to get big-headed, and swell-headed. And so we broke up, but my goddaughter and I, who was singing with me at the time because she really wanted to sing for the Lord, I would ask the Lord to do something about the group. And I told her, "Just hang in there, if the Lord wants us to sing, he'll give us what we need." And one day I was on the avenue, going to pay my gas bill.

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And I ran into - I was used to doing a tent revival every year in Philadelphia - and this young lady was a member of the choir that worked under the tent. And I ran into her mother, who says, "I sure there was something for my daughter to do, because she's doing nothing now." And I said, "You mean she's not singing, she's not working for the Lord." She says, "She's doing nothing, I don't know what's wrong with her." I said, well, tell her to call me.

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And we got in touch with each other, and there she is. Not only is she a singer of the Ultrasound, but she is now my daughter in law, Lisa. We got Lisa engaged and I was sitting at my mother's one day, and my mother and I were talking, and I said to her, "Well, we need somebody else to sing in the group, but I'll wait on the Lord to send her." About that time, the door opened and my baby sister walked in and came into the kitchen, and before we could say anything, she said, "I want to sing. I want to sing for the Lord. I got to find somewhere to sing," and I looked up and I said, "Well thank you Lord," and there she is, my baby sister, Ethel.

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Speaker 1: Well we needed a drummer and who better to ask

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was my son, Billy, to play drums for us. But, now, he didn't really want to, because we didn't have a bass player.

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He said, "If you get a bass player I'll play the drums." So we were blessed

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and we got a bass player who is, unfortunately, not with us today, but we got a bass player.

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And then Billy started playing drums. And he's been with us ever since.

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And, of course, he is the husband of Lisa, and they are the proud parents of now, BJ, who is Billy Junior, and he's 14 months old.

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[[applause]]

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Speaker 1: Well, I have a habit of taking and making musicians, and helping them get started,

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and sending 'em out, and, uh -- (laughs) -- and, uh, we had a musician,

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a young man who was my godson, and who still is my godson,

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but he's married now, and of course, he can't devote his time to ultrasound, and so we got the opportunity

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to come and be in this festival, and I could think of no other person to give this opportunity to.

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Then, and he is like my godson, really, and he says, "unfortunately" -- (laughs) --

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someone said to him yesterday, "She looks like she's gonna hit you." He said, "Yeah, and she will, too."

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Um, but, this young man, I'm grateful to God for, because he's God's gift,

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God has given him a God-given talent. And I tell you, um, I enjoy working with David.

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Simply because he can keep you cracking up, you know, when you feel kind of low, in spirits, and that kind of thing,

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David comes along and he has something to make you laugh and forget all about your problems.

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And I tell you, he's very good for the group. And, uh, he has his own group and

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we're not going to take him from 'em, although I wish I could keep him around. But -- he says "I can't do that" -- but we're grateful

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he could make it to this festival with us, and that's David Winslow.

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Bill Wiggins: And now you know how Ultrasound is coming to being, but I think these young ladies are also very very very talented.

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I think that for those of you who have not heard them when they do perform, they perform much of their own material,

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and who is it that I know yesterday that was at least one song that was performed that was written by a member of the group. What was the song? Does anybody--

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[SILENCE]
Speaker 2: Lisa song
Arlene Mills: Lisa song Lisa tell about your song
Bill Wiggins: Tell us about your song Lisa
Arlene Mills: Tell us about your song

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Bill Wiggins: She had the lead solo and then also-- yeah she wrote it
Speaker 3: She wrote-- [[Cross talk]]
Bill Wiggins: That's what I'm saying. Yeah
Arlene Mills: Yeah

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Lisa Speaks: Well-- [[LAUGHTER]] I was raised in the church, but, I don't wanna knock any denomination but I was raised in a reformed Episcopal church. And we were just taught you know, you read your bible, and you come to Sunday school and you go home and you're finished.

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Lisa Speaks: Yeah, and you come on Sunday and you do it all over again, you go home and you're finished. And one day I was watching a religious program on TV, and they were talking about healing, and how the Lord did this and that, and I turned it off. I said nobody wanna watch that, that's crazy stuff, you know, nothing works likes that.

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But then one day, I was watching the show and it dawned on me, people do live like this.

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And believe it or not but I wrote the song and it took me about 5 minutes. I sat down and wrote the whole song. You know it, just came to me, that all of a sudden God was real.

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You know I had to-- I went to a new church, but you know it dawned on me finally that God wasn't something that you just come to church on Sunday and you read your bible school stories and then you go home.

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You know it all of a sudden became real to me and I wrote the words a little bit of it was, I used to worship a god I couldn't feel, I couldn't see him, I couldn't hear him, to me he wasn't real.

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And he goes on to explain you know how I did all the things that people tell you supposed to do when you go to church. But you have to learn for yourself that God is real.

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Speaker 1: And if you come back, uh, this afternoon you are going to have a chance to hear that. Uh, we have another songwriter on the end, down here, I mean, she's on the back row, but, going back to the back row, could you... a song that perhaps, you have composed, I'm sure?

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Speaker 2: But she wrote the music.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you wrote the music... you all collaborated... you did the words, and... alright. Well, tell me, how do you compose, or tell me about some of your efforts.

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Speaker 2: Well... what I did... um, Lisa said she needed music for her song. So we sat down to the piano and we did a number of chords, or, you know, arrangements, and it didn't take. But then, when she decides to put her words into the music, I just happened to sit and just start playing, and I said "Well, let me try this" and there was the song. What about what everyone's talking about? Okay, now with the song that Jenny sings, everybody, this is Jenny, the flip side of the record, everybody's talking about Jesus and me. I had had an experience with my friends, you know, people who you think are your friends, really aren't. But I'm sure all of you know this. But, um, I was going in church, all I knew was church, all I wanted to do was be in church, worship the Lord and the fullness, right? [[inaudible]] Um, I would go to church, come home, sleep, and go to school. So when I started talking about Church, my friends didn't want to hear that. They were too busy out here doing their own thing. Okay? When I didn't want to do--

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Speaker 1: They talk about me, and ask me what god was I serving. He don't act like this.

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And I sat down one day I got to myself and it hurt me because someone said something to me

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and I didn't expect it from them. Coming from them now, because they knew about church

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but yet they were doing their own thing on the side. I sat, I cried, and I prayed.

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I asked God to give me some words to let people know that no matter how much you are talked about,

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don't worry about the people. My Bible tells me that greater is your reward in heaven, okay?

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Now, people, I didn't know people I did know they were saying everything about me. That that they don't find out about you until they make up.

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{Speaker 2} Uh-huh. [[affirmitive]]

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{Speaker 1} And I got tired of that too. So I sat, and the words came to me,

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"I belong to Jesus. He belongs to me. My friends don't understand

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why I love this man, he set my soul free. And this happened

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when I was about 14 years old, and he gave me the victory." What I'm saying here is

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that he made conquer, he helped me to conquer the hurt that I was feeling from my friends.

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And the song goes on and goes on, but that song was arranged through--what'd you call it?

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{Speaker 2} Through your own experience.

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{Speaker 1} Through my own experience--thank you, honey. Through my own experience.

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{Speaker 3} Alright, um, we've got, do we have another song?

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Do we have a composer here? Do, do we have anyone else who has, has written, uh,

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composed a song here? We're pointing at somebody here.

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{Speaker 4} We did one yesterday, "Be still and know that I am God." And, um, when the Lord

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allowed me to put the group together, I had asked the Lord for a specific--

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Arlene Mills: What I really wanted was the old sound. Um--

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I wanted something that would reach deep into the hearts of people

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when they heard it, and yet I did not want to sound like somebody else.

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Because we have a tendency a lot of times to sing other people's music and you can't get away

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from sounding like them because it is written for them. And so I was sitting down one day and I thought--

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Well, let me back up. I used to write music. When I first got with the Johny Thompson singers, I used to write music.

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Of course, none of that music ever was used because of the young man's ego.

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Um, he never wanted, you know--and I say what I say because I can back it up--

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he never wanted to use someone else's music and so I was afraid after being with him for so long that

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if I began to write music I would begin to sound exactly like him. And so I was praying and asking

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the Lord, "Please don't let me do that." And the song that I came up with shocked me because I've

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never been one to lean on [[contemp]] sounds and I didn't stay with my music long enough to really do orchestration like I would've liked to.

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But when I sat down to the piano and began to put this thing together, it came out because the Lord was

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speaking to me when I really read the words back to myself. It was telling me to wait on him where the group was concerned; don't try to do it of yourself

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because we had tried that before and it didn't work. And do the song I wrote was 'Be Still and Know I am God.'

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'Be Still and Know I am God' and many times we don't do that. We're so busy into a chaotic world that we don't know what

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the Lord wants us to do; We don't know what God's will is for our lives. And so He wanted me to be still

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and I found out, because when I wrote this it was like 4 o'clock in the morning, and that's where the lion comes from

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in the quiet of the morn; in the stillness of the dawn, is the best time to talk to the Lord because there's nothing to disturb you.

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You really want to talk to him, wake up early in the morning. And it went on, as the verse went on to say I can talk to God wherever I am.

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It doesn't make any difference what part of the world I am in because I had learned that.

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And He's there for me even when I am feeling at my lowest ebb and that's where the word blue comes from. Because putting lowest ebb didn't fit,

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so I said whenever I'm blue and if He speaks to me, certainly, he can talk with you.

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And that's the way that song was born. It was born out of the Lord really speaking to my heart early in...

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Arlene Mills: To Wait. And he would give me the group that he wanted me to have, and I'm very happy with all of them.
Bill Wiggins: Okay I hope that you do come out, and hear Pastor Mill's Ultrasound perform on the stage this afternoon, and also as she mentioned they do have copies of the 45,er uh, record for sale at the, uhmm--it's the white tent, the uhh--
Arlene Mills: Straight down, there's a white tent you will see and it's only a dollar 5 cents. Where can you buy a 45 for that nowadays?
Bill Wiggins: So, pick up--come to the concert, pick up the record, and go home and rest from yesterday as we are going to do tonight.
Arlene Mills: [[Laughter]]
Bill Wiggins: We wanna thank the members of Ultrasound and let them go and, get themselves ready, or uhhm, relax until they come on. Which is at what times?--
Arlene Mills: 2:45.
Bill Wiggins: They will be on that stage, the performance stage at 2:45. We hope to see you there, thank you again. [[clapping]] [[Background Voice]]
Bill Wiggins: Good evening, afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the second workshop. We're here with members of Groove Phi Groove, a social organization from University of Pennsylvania. Six high-stepping Collegians--uuhm--What we have been, I dunno how many of you have seen it but you were on today at what, 3:15?-- [[Background Voice]]
Bill Wiggins: 3:15 to 3:45, I'll give you some examples-- [[Background Voice]]
Bill Wiggins: Of the-- [[Background noise]]
Bill Wiggins: Male dancing, of the stepping type of competition that goes on, uhh, during festive occasions at college, uhh, such as homecoming, I think the uhh pen relays; but I'm not gonna talk anymore. I'm Bill Wiggins from Indiana university, I want the gentleman to introduce themselves to you; tell you a bit about where they're from, and their majors--

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Bill Wiggins: And their majors, and then we'll get right into that whole tradition of stepping. So we can start--Let's start at this end, uh Jeff, because we know--it would gravitate back that way anyways so lets start on this end. [[Background Noise]]
Jeff Edwards: Good afternoon everybody, I'm Jeff Edwards. I'm a Junior of the Warton [Wharton] School of Pennsylvania-- [[Background Voice]]
Jeff: My hometown is New York New Jersey, I'm glad to be here.
[SILENCE] [[Background Noise]]
Glen Glasgow: Hello I'm Glen Glasgow, I'm originally from San Antonio, Texas, I'm--I'll be a Junior in the fall majoring in Finance--School of Warton.[Wharton]
[SILENCE] [[Background Noise]]
Terry Anderson: My name is Terry Anderson, I'm a Junior in the Warton [Wharton] School University of Pennsylvania. My major is Marketing. I'm originally from New York City.
[SILENCE] [[background Noise]] [[Background Voice]]
Carlton: I'm Carlton [[?]] and I'm an Economics major Senior at the University of Pennsylvania--I'm from New York City. [[Background Noise]]
Eric Weatherford: Uhh, my name is Eric Weatherford I'm going on in my Senior year--University of Pennsylvania, I'm and Economics major, and I'm from West Philadelphia.
Bill Wiggins: What they did not do for you this time is give you that "known de gas" in other words each of the gentlemen has a, uhh, silver kit by which they go. Uhh, would you let us come back this way?--Tell us first of all, sir Rapalot, what it--how you get it and so forth--what your is? [[Inaudible]].
Jeff: Well, uhh, scuse me, you in the back. Hi y'all. Won't y'all come on over.
Bill Wiggins: [[Laughter]]
Jeff: Come on over and let's hear something about stepping. How many people know something about stepping? If you're just standing around, and you wanna hear about stepping: Come on over. [[Background Noise]]
Jeff: If you're just wondering what's going on: Hey we invite you all to come on over and--and talk with us, ask some questions, and find out a little more about what we do. [[Background Noise]]
Jeff: Glen--Glen come here--[[laughter]]--Come here Glen--[[Laughter]]--Glen Henson is the man responsible for us being here right now.

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Speaker 1: Come on over...come on, come on! [[Chuckles]]--
Speaker 2: [[interrupting and speaking in the background]] How about you run over and tell them to come over here..
Speaker 1: How about a free step show right now.. [[Chuckles]]

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Speaker 3: Ladies and Gentlemen... Increase volume, volume...

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Speaker 3: Ladies and Gentlemen standing in the back, come on over here, we've got a lot of seats upfront and we're about to present to you a show

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which is both educational, entertaining and erudite, That's right, the three Es all right together. Come right upfront.

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Ladies and Gentlemen, come right up, we've got a lot of room left, a lot of time and a lot of good stepping, a lot of good talk.

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Speaker 3: Alright...

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Speaker 4: Now back to the original question, Brother. [[Speaker unknown chuckling]]

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Speaker 1: There original question was: how do we get the names that we go by...uh..

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Some of us have nicknames, in matter of fact all of us have nicknames, mine is Sir-RapALot, and as you see I'm still talking so it's quite becoming...[[chuckles]]

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Uh...We get them when we're pleasant and on the first period you get a name which is characteristic of how you are while you're pledging. And if,

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Since I talk a lot I like to entertain the potential fellowmen, they were the ones who were pledging us, so..

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instead of being harassed, I'd like to carry, you know, a conversation or talk a lot, which I'm doing right now, so that's my...that's my line name, "Rap-A-Lot".

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[[silence]]

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Speaker 4: Hello, Hello... Hello, Hello.. [[Testing Microphone]]

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Alright, my name is... my line name is E-Man because I try to do everything

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so they call me "E-man" for "Everything", but uhm,..

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we are a social fellowship and I stress that, we're not a fraternity or any type of club. and we call each other "fellow-man", and that's very important to us, you know, I'd like everybody to understand that.

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I hope if you do have a few questions about stepping or whatever, why we're up here, anything, please ask us because we will answer them, so that you know what we're about.

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Speaker 1: At times my line name is "Mr-T" because my first name is Terry. But the line name now is given to me is [["so-squint" ?]] because I used to squint a lot everytime I answered questions.

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You might notice that now, but I don't mind it as much as [[many people?]] seem to think I do. because [[inaudible]] He would've told you my line name anyway if I hadn't told you the truth. [[chuckles]]

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Speaker 2: You should told stories Terry.
Speaker 3: My line name is "Quick Draw" and I was quick to the draws, quick to do a lot of things, especially quick to leave and exit.

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So, they gave me the line name "Quick Draw".

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Speaker 4: You know this is the part of the show I don't like, you know.

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We were telling each other line names and I have one, a new one, which is "Mr. Smooth", but every one doesn't like that name, so they want me to tell the real name which they gave me,...

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Speaker 2: Kermit, right. On sesame street. Kermit, so that's what he's hesitating to say.

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Speaker 4: The reason they gave me that was because everyone's name is characteristic of their personality. and they somehow related my speech by the way I used, They said I shouted and talked, like I was, uh... Kermit or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Frog Mouth.
Speaker 2: Frog mouth, yeah...Frog Mouth.

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[[Someone chuckles]]

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Speaker 5- interviewer: Well, you can see that there's a great deal of fellowship here,

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but with the stepping itself, I've noticed in a week and some days we've been together that you have a particular nomenclature for what you do

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so you would've..uh...Yesterday, you were talking about freaking, freaking out,

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the lining and this or this thought. [[people chuckling in the background]]

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Obviously, you know, what are the basic steps or again what determines what?

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Speaker 2: Okay, uh... When we step, it's not really freaking out. I mean, it's just a part, it's just a name to describe the certain portion of a step.

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Like, if we can have a demonstration, have two of the brothers come up and start doing one step, and then one may break off into another beat that sounds the same but in actuality, it's exactly a different step.

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And, uhm... That's what we mean by freaking. You can do certain steps off of one step. and it will go and it will be in the same beat rhythm.

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Like, Terry and Glen, are gonna demonstrate the ultimate step right now. This is a step which we do a lot of freaking off of, you know, that word being, I mean, it can stand for just about anything, but uh... I'll let them demonstrate.

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You notice that they're keeping a regular beat right here and when you see one-once we jump from out of that and maintain a beat like Terry's doing right here (right) that's called freaking. But he keeps the beat at all times. See Glenn's doing another one, Glenn's slapping his legs now. That's another form of freaking. Staying on the same beat going back into the original step. Carleton's going to get up and do something else for you. See? As you see all the beats and rhythms come back into the same- into the same rhythm so the-uh-so the freaks that-that-that Carleton's doing in the middle are in beat with Terry and Glenn at the same time. That's what we just-that's what's-uh-talked about when we-when we-say freaking. There is vari-there are-uh-various forms of freaking. We can freak off the different steps, we can hear a rhyth-uh-a song on a radio, hear a different beat. You can hum a beat. We can-you know-you're doing it in the shower, on the bus, do it anywhere basically. Part of stepping is being able to-uh-keep these beats in your head. It's-it's-it's sort of like an instinct after a while. You start off by learning to count the beat, but after a while, you don't count the beats it's just instinct you learn how to move into the beats. Takes a while to develop. Now-now-now-there-now-there may be-thank you. Uh, there-there may be other brothers from around the country who may come from different campuses and do different steps, but they just as we-you know-as we're stepping right here, they may be able to join in with their particular steps because it fits the type of, uh, rhythm that we have. So, uh, in a sense, you can say that-that everything is uniform but-but-but-not-but-but it's totally unique in a sense.

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Speaker 1: We're having questions here as to what you have seen, thus far. In other words, you have to self learn a basic cadence, rhythm, and then be able to improvise

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or as they say, to freak off of that. Utilizing, um, the hands, the body, the chest, the thighs, and the feet even as a resonator. So this whole notion of polarhythmic, um, you will see this afternoon.

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I mean, they, I don't know which particular one it is, but you got one particular step in which you have the three different lines going with three different rhythms and they all come back in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. There's a step called the fancy step that we do, and in actuality, we have two members doing one step then the other two will be doing a different step and the third one would be doing a different step, and then they'd all come in and blend together, and uh, it'll be uniform at the end of the step.

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So uh, there's a lot of syncopation and rhythm and it's just keeping it- I've been stepping for three years since I've been a member of the fellowship, and uh, my line brother, I pledged with Carlton, he's been stepping for three years also. Terry and Jeff went in stepping for two years, and Glenn, who was just up, has just been stepping for a couple months.

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So, you know, it's the dedication to get it down. After you get it down you sort of feel the rhythm, the beat, you can just jump in and you know not being shy is a big part of learning how to step, learning new steps.

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Speaker 2: There were a couple brothers down yesterday from Maryland Eastern Shore and they just taught us a new step. We were over there trying to get it today, trying to get it down pat so we can take it back, and that's how its transferred, that's how different steps are transferred throughout the country. And you know, it's universal among brothers and people who can pick up the rhythm and just go with it.

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Like some of the performers up there, the tap dancers, they can pick up stuff.

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Speaker 1: uh, the breakdancers can pick up somewhere

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because, because they can feel the uh, sense of rhythm and make the note, make their own beat

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it may be unique to what, to what they feel and umm, you know, which is good, because because

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that's what it's all about, everybody having their own unique rhythm

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and just expressing themselves that way

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Speaker 2: Ok, there's also not only the movement of the feet and the rhythm of the hands and so forth

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but there's a, there's some chants, there's some verbal part to it too.

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Umm, umm, is there any signifying, is there any any uh, any uh, verbal contest going on here? I mean you all, all this is going on at once

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but who you all talking about, or talking to or something
Speaker 1: Carlton?
Carlton:

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Ok, well, when we're stepping we're usually talking about other organizations, such as umm,

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I call them non-fellowships because they're not fellowships like we are but

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they're really fraternities, sororities, umm, to the sororities we always have something nice to say about the women,

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and about the men we usually don't have too many nice things to say. But umm,

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It's just a game, a little game while everybody does their own type of dance you could call it

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and umm, it just, we compete to see who's the best.

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I think we are. That's why we're here in Philly, I mean DC.
Speaker 1:

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This is a form of competition - you know, you play football, you play it under different rules

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you step, you step under different rules you know, uh, in stepping, stepping is a, a non-contact sport

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alright, so in stepping, you, you have, you have to use verbal, verbal communication

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it's it's just, just along the same lines as football. Football, you tackle him

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in basketball, you put the ball in the hoop stepping - you, you, you step you make a rhythm, and and you chant certain things to uh, uh, to compete with the other groups, and it's really competition for uh, crowd response

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So uh there may be some antics going on uh during, during the show

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which may, which may get the crowd really involved and get them chanting

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and, and clapping, and that's really what you want, you want the crowd to get

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I mean to participate it what you're doing. As you'll see over at uh, at uh, 3:15 today, over on the other tent you'll see

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Speaker 1 [Jeff]: Tell 'em, tell 'em about a step, and how it-- you know-- what it came to be from. It goes like this: stepping started in Africa, and they called it dance-- Speaker 2: --[[inaudible]] Speaker 1 [Jeff]: This step will do-- will make you move.

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Speaker 2: Alright-- Jeff is talking about a particular step, which we do, it's called the--a "Mambo Groove," and, and what he's doing now-- Joe, come on over Joe, Joe, Joe's a, Joe's one of our graduate brothers from Pennsylvania, and he's down for [[Sir sinister??]], thats--that's Joe's name, I don't, I don't know why but I guess you can, you have some idea. Joe's gonna demonstrate the Mambo, and Jeff's gonna do the chant.

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[[Laughter]] Speaker 2: And then you're, then you're gonna understand you know exactly what we mean by having a chant and someone stepping and doing it at the same time.

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Speaker 1 [Jeff]: Gee, [figh[?]], Gee, hit it. [[Drumming, clapping]]

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[Jeff and Speaker 2, chanting] Now stepping started in Africa, and they called it dance, the step we do will make you move, put you in a trance. Step to the side, and you will see just who we be, we're those bad [bold[??]] brothers of Gee [Figh??] Gee. Now i say dance, you've got to dance now, Mambo Groove, I say dance, you gotta dance [now/y'all] Mambo Groove, I say dance, you gotta dance [now/y'all], Mambo Groove, I say dance, (everybody) dance [now/y'all], Mambo Groove-- Freak time.

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[[Drumming, clapping]]

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[Jeff] Joe's demonstrating one of them freaks to the Mambo Groove. [[Drumming, clapping]] [[Cross talk]] [Jeff] Then he'll probably break into another one after this. [Speaker 2] Do the last one for 'em Joe.

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[[Drumming, clapping]] [[man chuckles]] [[applause]] [Speaker 3] Alright let's give them a hand.

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[Speaker 2] Joe--Joe likes to, [[laughs]] Joe like to make up different freaks, so uh what you see is the Joe Jackson original, I assure you I have never seen that before in my life.

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[[laughter]] [Speaker 2] So, you--you were there, you can say that you were there when we made up the new freak to the Mambo Groove.

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[[laugher]] [Speaker 3] Alright-- I think-- do we have any questions from the audience?

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[[crosstalk]] [Speaker 1] Uhhh and then we'll do some more dancing at 3:15. [[man laughing]] [Speaker 2] Half hour show, half hour show. [Speaker 1] And, uh, the, the half hour show, and we have the next workshop, I think it is now 2 o'clock, and the next workshop is coming on, but we do urge you to come back, at 3:15 [Speaker 3] [[inaudible]] [Speaker 1[[cross talk]] No--on the main stage [Speaker 2[cross talk]] Over at the performance stage [Speaker 2] And for all the ladies we have a stepping especially for you [Speaker 1] And so please come back, especially the ladies-- for that. So we'll see you-- [[laughing]] [Speaker 1] --let's give them a hand again for coming out. [[applause]] [Speaker 1] Groove, Phi, Groove. See you at 3:15. [[background noise]]
[SILENCE]