Blanche Crayton, 1976 April 2, Side 2

Web Video Text Tracks Format (WebVTT)

WEBVTT

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[[guitar]]

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} Are you going to be here tomorrow night?

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Pearl Bowser: Thursday? {Unidentified Speaker 1} Yeah.

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Pearl Bowser: Yeah, why?

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} I just wanted to see, Because I have practice tomorrow, so then my last one will be tomorrow night.

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Pearl Bowser: Yes, I should be here. {Unidentified Speaker 1} Hum?
Pearl Bowser: Yes, I'll be here. {Unidentified Speaker 1} Ok.

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[[sound of items moving around the room]]

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Pearl Bowser: How was this music teacher?

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} Mister [[Khdour?]]?
Pearl Bowser: Um, hum.

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} He's OK
Pearl Bowser: Learning anything from him?

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} Yeah, I mean, he's an alright guy. None of my teachers even come near, even the forgot his name, that horrible teacher I had

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Pearl Bowser: [[Korhius?]] {Unidentified Speaker 1} No.
Pearl Bowser: [[Korhius?]] {Unidentified Speaker 1} No, not [[Korhius?]], Gabe something.

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{Unidentified Speaker 1} Gunther! Gunther.
Pearl Bowser: Gunther, Oh. You didn't like him did--

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Blanche Crayton: Oh yes, [[recording artifact]] that's right.

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Pearl Bowser: So that, as far as the government is concerned, it's the museum that's responsible for the actual money that goes out or coming in. They have to make a report. Now, I don't know whether they will make a public report about the amount of money that was made, but just looking at the whole--they spend a lot of money. Just in having, I mean those

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Pearl Bowser: Oh and, uh, Chester?
Blanche Crayton: Chester.
Pearl Bowser: Chester!

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Blanche Crayton: They went into San Francisco and stayed a couple of days.

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Pearl Bowser: Oh, no they--they decided last minute to
Blanche Crayton: Go on home?

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Pearl Bowser: Go home and [[cross talk, oh really]] it's fortunate they did because uh [[crosstalk - why?]] he had an attack
Blanche Crayton: Oh really?
Pearl Bowser: Yeah he was very ill the day they got home

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Blanche Crayton: He was going pretty good there
Pearl Bowser: He's alright now, but he had to go into the hospital

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[[cross talk]]

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Pearl Bowser: He couldn't breathe
Blanche Crayton: Really?
Pearl Bowser: He had uh-

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Blanche Crayton: Emphysema?
Pearl Bowser: No I don't think he has Emphysema; It was something they had to remove
Blanche Crayton: He had an aneurysm, yea.

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Pearl Bowser: I don't know the term for it but she described it to me it was something that was bleeding in his heart and they had to get him to the hospital right away. And he's fine now

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Blanche Crayton: Those [[cross talk]] were stopping in Los Vegas just saying we were going down to Los Angeles

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Pearl Bowser: Yeah well for people like that I imagine--I don't know--I wouldn't assume that's what they did with their ticket you know you got your ticket when you saw it. They didn't do it on that day since they probably should have, it would have saved them a considerable amount of money

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[SILENCE]

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Blanche Crayton: And if you know what you're doing, all of the airlines now, I mean America and United and all that, they whatever [[cross talk]]

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Pearl Bowser: Right and they didn't--they didn't book everybody on the same plane which might have saved might have--people coming from New York

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Blanche Crayton: They couldn't do that because you see they stop in Cleveland. It's a through--

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Pearl Bowser: No I don't mean people outside. I mean the whole group of people who came from New York all came on separate flights for the most part.
Blanche Crayton: Oh really?

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Pearl Bowser: I mean Bella Fondy came in from new York, Melvin Van Peebles came in from New York, there were three of us that came in from New York. Lucille, my sister, myself, and then there was Al, the Chesters came.

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[[cross talk]]

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Pearl Bowser: The Tuckers came in from [[cross talk - yea]], they had to come to New York first Yea but somehow that could've been coordinated so they had like 9 people. And we all came on separate planes.

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Blanche Crayton: And they didn't ask me, they just sent the ticket into--United, how did they know I wanted to go on United!? I wanted to go on America.

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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (unintelligible)

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PEARL BOWSER: And the story of Dorothy- Dorothy Stanfield. BLANCHE CRAYTON: (hums in agreement)

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PEARL BOWSER: Published out of 40 Loinside Avenue, New York. It's 1946. BLANCHE CRAYTON: What do you see?

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PEARL BOWSER: And there's nothing to indicate that this is um- um- not the first publication.

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PEARL BOWSER: I-It doesn't say reprint. BLANCHE CRAYTON: Oh.

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CRAYTON: That's- do you think that's the first? BOWSER: I think this may be the first- the first edition (Crayton hums in agreement) of- of- (cut off)

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(Both talking simultaneously) (unidentified clanging) BOWSER: The case of Mrs. Wingate, um..
[SILENCE]

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BOWSER: is 1944. CRAYTON: 44 BOWSER: Right, and again, it does not say that it is a

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CRAYTON: Reprint.

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BOWSER: Reprint. It was copyright in 1949. (Crayton hums in agreement) CRAYTON: (unintelligible) BOWSER:..this one is dedicated to his wife.

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(Crayton hums in agreement) BOWSER: The masquerade is uh..
[SILENCE] (pages flipping)

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BOWSER: ..third edition. CRAYTON: Oh..

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BOWSER: 1947. CRAYTON: Ah.

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BOWSER: So I don't know when- when it first came out. It doesn't say when it first came out. It doesn't say on the first CRAYTON: Yeah... (starts talking but is cut off)

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BOWSER: It may on the jacket.

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CRAYTON: (unintelligible, cut off) BOWSER: Masquerade, is that the jacket?

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CRAYTON: No.. the jacket is Wingate.

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BOWSER: Oh, okay, it is Wingate.

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CRAYTON: Mhm BOWSER: And the [?] from nowhere, which I know he made an early movie of..um..is dated 1941.

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CRAYTON: 41..

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BOWSER: and this is first edition..at least, well, it says first edition. Thats 1941. So this one I suspect he wrote the book after he..um..

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CRAYTON: ..did the movie

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BOWSER: ..did a script and made a movie. CRAYTON: ..did a script..oh I see..mhm. Well, what..uh..I would do is..um..uh..if you would like, I'll get you a set of these four [crosstalk]

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BOWSER: ..that I would like very much

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CRAYTON: .. newer ones .. uh .. uh .. if she ever gets around to ...[?]... I would pick them up myself and then send you a set of these and I've promised the museum a set. I promised Albert Johnson a set for the museum..uh..but, uh..these are the only ones I have, this [Homesteader?] that you're talking about, I dont have it on.

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BOWSER: No, I see a copy of the [Homesteader?] in the [Chamburgh?] library, that the only place I've seen it.

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CRAYTON: Hey. Are you.. do you know Louis [?]

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BOWSER: Uh, I went to interview him .. uh .. back in 1970 because I thought he was related, but he's not.

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CRAYTON: Well, what did he say to you? He had all of us [?]

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BOWSER: He had..I got my b- books from him.

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CRAYTON: Oh!

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BOWSER: I got the Mas-..the um..The Masquerade and um .. no that's the only one I got from him. That's the only one he had left.. CRAYTON: Mhm

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BOWSER: ..The Masquerade from him and um we talked for several hours but mostly about him and his family because I was trying to determine if there was any relationship between the two families because it's such an unusual name and apparently, he claims that um both [?] families

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Blanche Crayton: Anybody said whatever Oscar said, he couldn't but it together but the elder always claimed that they were related.

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He said there's no way with this name Michelle--and we and he--and I used to laugh about it--he said--you know the elder--but the elder insisted, and Louis--

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Mr. Louis Michelleused to come out because by sister, sister Alice, his sister, named Margaret called my sis--Mrs. Michelle, my sister, Sister Alice,

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they always seemed to think there was some relation somewhere and nobody could put the finger on it but a name like that!

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Pearl Bowser: It is so unusual.
Blanche Crayton: Yeah! Ya know--and they--but they couldn't put it together somewhere,

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but the elder, whenever Oscar was in Washington, the elder got hold of him and they had a time!

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And he, the elder, was insistent and Oscar said "I don't know what you're talking about" you know, it didn't matter to him, about family, but the elder insisted that his--I dont know,

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whatever--his grandmother, his grand-somebody--somebody, that they, well, that is was uh obvious that something along the line there was--

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Pearl Bowser: Yeah, that name is so unusual [[cross talk]], its hard to imagine.
Blanche Crayton: Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't seen--I thought Louis, Mr. Louis Michelle who came up when my mother passed and all,

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I thought that he was dead but Tucker tells me that he's not dead at all, he's alive.

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Pearl Bowser: Uh, as far as I know he's still alive but the book store on 125th Street is no longer there.

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Blanche Crayton: Is that so?
Pearl Bowser: And I know he was--he was very ill, when I interviewed him, which was like five years ago.

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Blanche Crayton: Is that so?
Pearl Bowser: And his wife was pretty much keeping it together and at one point this book store was supposed to move into a new state office building right on off 125th Street.

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He had been given space on the lobby floor for a new store and he felt he just could not make the move and his wife apparently didn't want to keep it up,

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So the store was closed nobody knows what is going to happen to the contents of the store--
Blanche Crayton: Oh.
Pearl Bowser: If indeed something has not already taken place.

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Blanche Crayton: Oh dear.
Pearl Bowser: Now with all that material.
Blanche Crayton: All that material in there--
Pearl Bowser: I know.

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I interviewed him in the basement of that store--
Blanche Crayton: Oh--

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Pearl Bowser: And he, ya know, he ultimately started talking about himself, primarily. And his father, the elder Michelle,

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and pulling out books from different corners of the area and blowing the dust off of them or pulling out a record underneath a pile of newspapers, and it's

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Pearl Bowser: Yeah Um, I often had suspicions about, um what he said he had and what he actually, in fact, did have.

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Pearl Bowser: Now, he tempted me by telling me he had film.

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Pearl Bowser: He, he had some prints back there somewhere in the cellar, and I knew if he had prints back there in the cellar, they're useless, because it was very warm down there,

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and the things I was talking about were already, like, um, 50 years old.

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Pearl Bowser: So they're not going to be preserved under those conditions at all. So if he had it,

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it may have been there and he sort of forgotten it over the years but I doubt, y'know, how usable the material would be. It wasn't.

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Pearl Bowser: Um, then it was very strange because his wife whom I thought did not like me. Um, because I think she got wind of the fact that I was working in some downtown museum,

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alright, and I was a reporter sent up to pick out information for some white institution.

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Pearl Bowser: So, she didn't like me and she almost didn't- she put me off for two months, two months she had me coming back, I mean, I was very persistent because I wanted very much to talk with him.

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Pearl Bowser: I still assumed at that point that he was to related to Oscar Michelle

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Pearl Bowser: Uh, I would come in and she wouldn't give me a time and he'd be there and she said, "I don't know come back tomorrow maybe he'll be here around two o'clock" and I'd come back come back the next day at 2 o'clock and uh, "he's not here hes left for the day.". This went on for about two months, finally--

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{Unknown Speaker 1} [[unintelligible]] [[laughter]]
Pearl Bowser: No she could wear me out,

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Pearl Bowser: Finally uh I met, in one one such trip to the store I met an elderly gentlemen who was there to see Michelle also and he was buying books.

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And he turned out to be a black historian who, um, you know was busy documenting literature and art and--and adventures and somehow he was looking for material.

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Pearl Bowser: Uh, Louis Michelle looks to her and I explained to him what I was doing, how I could never get to see Louis Michelle he said,

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"I know him I'll set up an appointment for you and I'll call you" and I go back to see him because he would buy rare books from him. Um, "I'll take you along with me and I'll send you right down to see him" and this guy

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Blanche Crayton: "I said not now!" [[laughter]] [[banter]]]

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And when I was in Oakland and somebody was talking about it I said "Sister-in-law sounds so--" people catch on with stuff like that girl [[??]] I had a sister-in-law they said

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"Stop with that sister-in-law business, just say you're just say two or three things just say you're a relative of Oscar Michelle, or whatever--member of the Oscar Michelle family,

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or a sister of Mr. Michelle or something, but leave off the sister-in-law because people get it all mixed-up."

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and we where laughing because I remembered, and I think I told Doctor what's his name there, Thomas,

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that I don't remember him every calling me my name, I was the youngest, my oldest sister--she's the oldest, I'm the baby of the family--

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he never call me anything but his little sister. Whatever he called me--did he papa?

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{Unknown Speaker 1} [[murmuring]]
Blanche Crayton: He never called me anything--"My little sister," "Hey there little sister," 'cause he thought I had a brain "Hi little sister, you oughtta--" that's all he ever called me.

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[[??]] [[laughter]]

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Pearl Bowser: I hate to interrupt but um--

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Blanche Crayton: [[??]] down at the baggage department! He brought it out there to the hotel and so told him that I was gonna stay someplace with my sister-in-law, oh heavens.

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Pearl Bowser: I'm really taking up a lot of your time
Blanche Crayton: Have a seat my dear, its 9 o'clock, we'll get you back and you get a good night's rest,

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and then come over in the morning, after breakfast, and call me when you get yourself straight,

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and then I left the day free, you can come over and talk about anything that you jot-down tonight that you want to talk about tomorrow, we have nothing to do tomorrow, we'll get you're business,

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whatever you can think of, I'll try to think of anything I can think of, so that you can get out Sunday morning or tomorrow night, whatever you wanna do. How's that?

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Pearl Bowser: Very good, that's fine--
Blanche Crayton: Ok--
Pearl Bowser: I really appreciate

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Blanche Crayton: No, no, I told you I was gonna hold this weekend for you, and this is what we will do.

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Now, is there anything at this moment that you think of you wanna close up with, or shall we leave it all till tomorrow?

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Pearl Bowser: Well, I will try to recall what we talked about when I turn the tape on.
Blanche Crayton: Yea. Ok.

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[[cross talk]]

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Blanche Crayton: Dear heaven. Is it on? [[recorder is picked up]]
Pearl Bowser: Yea, that's alright

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[[piano music, and cutlery in the background]]

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[[phone rings]]

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Pearl Bowser: Hi.

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Huh oh, oh he did I--I--got home late and it was like 4:30

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And um Yeah I know--I know--got the not in the mailbox today.

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I didn't get to um the other--the other mailbox.

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[[piano music and muttering]]

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Pearl Bowser: Oh! Oh! No, I had written it down, y'know in the telephone thing so I had to--

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[[piano music and muttering]]

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{Sound of clanking glass}

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Ok, ok, bye bye.

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{Sound of clanking glass}

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{Sound of clanking glass}

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{Recorder rubbing against clothing}