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Transcription: [00:11:41]
{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
And [[?]] not only engineers, but we also had mechanics and electricians with us. So in the shops, and not only in the shops but also, uh, in design.
[00:12:02]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
We saw something is amiss if the people didn't have any practical experience. You know, in selecting material, not only that, but also how do you do that?
Do you manufacture that this way, or this way, or this way?
[00:12:21]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
And there we had in test a constant difficulty because the man in charge of design, and the man in the shop the mechanic. The mechanic told him look we do not do it this way, we do it this and this way.
[00:12:41]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
And of course he - the designer didn't like to be corrected from a mechanic. But this was only obvious, you know, and very often I got complaints about that. And in looking at it I could only say the man in the shop was absolutely right!
[00:12:58]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
You know there are other things.
{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Just one question, is this, are you talking about the United States period now?
{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Yes, yup right that was, that was here in the United States.
[00:13:09]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Because we were, we had shops and we were [[?]] for example in Red Stone. The first Red Stone were manufactured here, in the arsenal.
And later on, after let's say after the fourth or fifth [[?]] it was given to industry.
[00:13:29]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
But the first were manufactured here. By the way, this is something which the industry didn't like at all, that we did that because we could clearly say look it doesn't cost that much, come on [[?]] use your [[?]].
[00:13:47]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
And this of course they didn't like; and therefore, uh, finally the testing and the manufacturing were cut out. And the testing came back later on again. Since a year or two years they had a test again. But before testing and manufacturing was completely kept.
[00:14:16]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
And this is a big danger for the young engineer. You hire the young engineers now at NASA. If they do not manufacture at all, where does the young man learn how to do it and how much it costs?