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00:21:13
00:27:43
00:21:13

Transcription: [00:21:13]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
Uh, you misunderstand my question. I'm asking you- Did you, uh, the Peenemünde stop with the sort of testing of mass numbers of industrial pumps at any time? Or did you continue right through the war doing part of the work for Mittlewerk, in terms of the mass production?

[00:21:34]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
We did, on that test stand number 8, we did part of it, for the Mittelwerk—

[00:21:40]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
All the way through?

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
—because we tested by far more combustion chambers than we launched vehicles. You know, the vehicles we launched, the highest time was every two weeks one, and later on, that was less.

[00:22:00]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
And we tested at least, uh, 24, 30 combustion chambers in one shift.

[00:22:13]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
So, the surplus was sent to the Mittelwerk, whatever we did not use, and that was by far less. So mainly we tested for the Mittelwerk.

[00:22:26]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
And that all the way through to the end — until things fell apart?

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Till the end of February. Right, right.

[00:22:32]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
But that continued right down to February 1945? When you began to evacuate?

[00:22:38]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
We, I do not even remember anymore when we started to evacuate. That was earlier than February. Uh--

[00:22:51]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Oh definitely, definitely, because we were already on Christmas 1944, we were at least. So we had evacuated, let's say in November of 1944.

[00:23:06]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
You were evacuated at that time as well?

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Right.

[00:23:12]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
See, that's different than- that's different than the most of Peenemünde.

[00:23:18]
I mean, obviously there had been dispersion of people and dispersion of tasks throughout this time before that,--

[00:23:25]
but most of that place was really evacuated in February and March. — But that testing of engines was pulled out before Christmas.

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Right. — And besides that for the testing itself, especially when you intended to build a new facility for total vehicles, you had to take material along, too.

[00:23:46]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
And that you didn't do only in one transport, so you had to have quite a few transports from Peenemünde to Lehesten.

[00:23:56]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
Um, alright so, before that time, I had a question that- I had a couple of organizational type questions which may not, you may not know much about at your level.

[00:24:11]
Number one- In 1943 Dornberger moved away, was became this General Z-B- Zett Be Vau, you know—
­
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
ZBV, ja, 'zur besonderen Verwendung'.

{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
—yeah, he was out of- he was away from direct control over that time.

[00:24:30]
A different group of ordnance officers took over under General Rossmann. And I was wondering whether you—

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Rossmann, yeah.

[00:24:39]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
Did you have any experience with the change in the relationship with the Army office ordnance people then?

[00:24:47]
I note some people told me that there was friction, but uh,-

[00:24:51]
Did it make any- Did you see any difference at all?

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
I did not see any difference. Not at all, not at all.

[00:24:57]
You know, I could imagine that in the general, uh, on the business side, that there were differences of opinion.

[00:25:12]
You know— How do we pay for that? How do we pay for that? Can we build this up? Can we invest that money for that or that or that, uh, possibility which came in new?--that they had difficulties. But I was not aware of difficulties there.

[00:25:36]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
You weren't aware that there was any greater- There were any more influence or- Anymore friction with the Army ordnance officers or anything—

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
No.

{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
—at that, before or after that time?

[00:25:50]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
You know there was a change every year or every half year. Half a year Dornberger was in, and half a year- what was his name, a Colonel?

[00:26:01]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
Zanssen was there.

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Zanssen. Zanssen. With Zanssen it was by far more difficult to work than with Dornberger, and they changed.

[00:26:13]
Half a year Dornberger was in Berlin, and half a year Zanssen was in Berlin. And it was always either Zanssen at Peenemünde or Dornberger. And Rossmann, he was the last one then.

[00:26:29]
Uh, Zanssen had asked - uh, in spite of the fact that he was a pessimist and he knew the war was lost - but he asked for a transfer to the Eastern front.

[00:26:45]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
So you didn't hear the story of Zanssen's removal, did you?

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
No.

[00:26:51]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
Did you, did you know that he was actually accused by the S.S. of being — involved with the oppositional — Catholic priest and was essentially, you know, forced out as a result of that?

[[crosstalk]]

{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
Yes. Yes.

[00:27:05]
{SPEAKER name="MICHAEL NEUFELD"}
That was I think after he had asked for transfer already.

[00:27:09]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
You know, Zanssen had shown very clearly that he was not convinced of the Nazi side, in spite of the fact that he was an early member - an early member - of the Nazi party before 1933.

[00:27:32]
{SPEAKER name="KARL HEIMBURG"}
And it could well be that Zanssen thought because he was an old member, he could open his mouth once in a while.
[00:27:43]


Transcription Notes:
Ordnance Officers. Zanssen Dornberger Mittelwerk

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