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Transcription: [00:02:54]
{SPEAKER name="Ed Ruscha"}
Well there's less imagery in John's work I think, and more
[00:02:57]

{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
More intellectual too, and more formal.
[00:03:00]

{SPEAKER name="Ed Ruscha"}
There was less of a social contact. Rauschenberg's images always contained so many things that we're all in love with, like birds and everything else, and, and using them in radical ways but,
[00:03:14]
John's was colder. His work was much colder.
[00:03:17]
And also, it was like, um, deliciousness, the deliciousness of his work was, I think, enhanced by the fact that it was not yet quite endorsed by museums and by the established, uh, art critics.
[00:03:35]
And at least to my point of view was not.
[00:03:37]

And uh, it was like Outlaw Art, and I think that's
[00:03:40]

{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
[[Laughter]] Yeah, yeah.

{SPEAKER name="Ed Ruscha"}
that's what attracted me to it, and made it important to me.
[00:03:47]

{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
What do you do?

{SPEAKER name="Ed Ruscha"}
Because it was an enigma, a true enigma. It was just so head-scratching that it, that it gained its power that way.
[00:03:55]

{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
What is even Outlaw Art anymore, you know?
[00:03:58]

{SPEAKER name="Ed Ruscha"}
Well, there's always Outlaw Art, you know.
[00:04:01]

{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I know, but, but to one at a given time.
[00:04:05]

{Jan Butterfield}
The kind that I miss now more than anything else
[00:04:08]


{Ed Ruscha}
I mean something it just, you know, it just hits you, just K.O.s you. Just you know, renders you useless.
[00:04:11]


{Jan Butterfield}
Yeah, but it's been a long time since that happened to me and there are few things there are few people that mirrors of anything new or anything kind of whatever I'm having a lot of trouble with new right now and stuff. Really having a lot of trouble.
[00:04:25]

{Jan Butterfield}
It's that kind of thing.

{Ed Ruscha}
Well it'll happen, it'll happen again. There's always something new.
[00:04:30]

{Jan Butterfield}
Oh yeah. There's a lot new but it is, the older you get there is that kind of, wistfulness, that has to do with where is that.
[00:04:38]
When we were in Venezuela, um, I got talking to a wonderful, strange art critic there who didn't speak much English.
[00:04:48]
He was talking about major works of art and there's a thing phrase, we don't have it in English but in Spanish it's called la canonal it's like a cannon ball in the chest.
[00:04:58]
[[laughter]] I love the Spanish phrase. But, it is that kind of thing.
[00:05:03]