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00:12:46
00:14:50
00:12:46
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Transcription: [00:12:47]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Ok, that's a pretty work. Ok now where do we go from there? And this is uh, and that's what I said about I think [[?]] causes entertainment ya know? and uh, I think that thats...

[00:13:07]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
He uses reification in that sense, and I think that that's very important that we understand it in that sense, because that's what it is

[00:13:18]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
It's a bizarre situation.
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I had a very long and similar conversation with Philip [[?]] about the differences...


[00:13:25]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Different application of it. But the differences between his abstracts of one working in the late [[?]] is very complicated and difficult work and not easy work for him, especially in the beginning.

[00:13:36]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
It took me a long time to come around to where that was coming from, but his whole point was that this-- the phenomena of the distraction is a very simple given.

[00:13:45]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Their own simple rules, you can make a breaking that's kind of it. And the whole principle of the news [[?]] is doing is because it was reality based, there was input

[00:13:56]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
But the... the number of solutions so you get the onward thing of making an object.

[00:14:03]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
you get into an area of something that has uh... uh a more um...

[00:14:12]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Effective interface with real human, y'know...

[00:14:26]
(SPEAKER name="jan butterfield")
but that was interesting to me because i never had [??]and initially i completely disagreed,because i find abstraction much more sensible and not a narrative or a realistic person