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Transcription: [00:14:54]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Oh, but why? [[inaudible]] at the same time

[00:15:04]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
You in no sense consider yourself an object-maker and in some sense mostly as we were talking about an object system right?

[00:15:11]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
[[passing vehicle sounds]] Right, go back to the original tape. I said nobody, I didn't talk to anybody that you were dealing with that called themselves a non-object maker.

[00:15:22]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Remember the--

[00:15:24]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
No, I know, I know.

[00:15:24]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
For starting?

[00:15:26]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I know, I know.

[00:15:27]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I thought I did objects.

[00:15:28]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
There still is an object.

[00:15:29]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Yeah.

[00:15:32]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
In some very real way.

[00:15:34]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
We need to be careful about that, too, because that could be used as an argument to build the case for the fact that this group of people we're talking about are sculptors.

[00:15:41]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I am.

[00:15:41]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I think that's a two-edge sword. We need to be very careful not to say, "yes, these are still objects" because that begs the point, all together, begs the whole perception [[inaudible]]

[00:15:57]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I mean the beginning of the argument, whether something is object or not object I think is old, kind of thin. I mean, too simplistic, not real interesting.

[00:16:07]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Yeah.
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
That's not really what-- Where the break is, where the real breakthrough is is not in the object-nonobject, it's in the attitude.

[00:16:15]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I think--

[00:16:15]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
In which can be maintained through numbers, you know.

[00:16:20]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Oh, I think I agree with you.

[00:16:22]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Because that could get--
{SILENCE}