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Senator Lausche. Last year on the floor of the Senate the argument was made that in some instance the Government, on a fare of about $19, pays $9 of the cost. Which is the longest run that is made? It is Los Angeles?

Mr. Boyd. Los Angeles has a run of about 65 miles. 

Senator Lausche. What is the cost of that 65-mile run?

Mr. Boyd. The cost on that is $10.

Senator Lausche. In Los Angeles, 65 miles is $19, and in New York, 29 miles is $10?
Mr. Boyd. Yes, sir.

Senator Lausche. How do you explain that? [Laughter.]

Mr. Boyd. I would much prefer to have the Los Angeles people explain that because I don’t know. I do know we have felt that the Los Angeles fare structure should be improved upward. There was room for an upward adjustment, and Los Angeles has adjusted its fares upward. 

Senator Lausche. Which is the longest run that is made among these three services, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco?

Mr. Boyd. The one to which we just referred.

Senator Monroney. Would you yield there?

Senator Lausche. Go ahead. 

Senator Monroney. An amplifying question. After the passenger boards the helicopter, it doesn’t make too much difference whether the run will be 10 miles or 20 miles, does it? It is a matter of a few more minutes’ flight. It is the starting and stopping and landing and take off. The boarding and debarking is the one thing which runs the costs up. You can’t fix fares on distance alone any more than you can in the fixed-wing aircraft. We find that short haul has to take a higher percentage of fare than long haul. 

Mr. Boyd. That is certainly true, Mr. Chairman. There are economies of haul. That has been historically represented through the tapered fare in our fare structures, ether it be related to surface transportation or air.

Senator Lausche. On page 6 of your paper, you say:

The helicopter service not only cuts down on the travel time, but it can compete costwise with surface transportation. For example, the taxi fare from the airport to Berkeley is $13.50, whereas the helicopter fare to this point is $8.50.

What part of the $8.50 do we pay in Los Angeles—what percentage? 

Mr. Boyd. We don’t pay any of that $8.50. That is the San Francisco-Oakland unsubsidized.

Senate Lausche. That is unsubsidized?

Mr. Boyd. Yes, sir. 

Senator Lausche. One final question. The unsubsidized San Francisco service lost $100,000 last year, according to your paper.

Mr. Boyd. Yes, sir.

Senator Lausche, you say that there are peculiar conditions which, by their very nature induce more people to use the service.

Mr. Boyd. Yes, sir. 

Senator Lausche. Is that the only reason that you ascribe to the fact that these entrepreneurs had the courage to go in there and say this will be a self-sustaining operation; we ask no subsidy?

Mr. Boyd. I think that is the basic reason. The natural water barrier, the bay area, and the boundless enthusiasm of the manage-