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You can't prejudge any results but it looks to me as though at this stage the carriers have got to exercise some ingenuity, and that the Government has to give them some greater flexibility. The business traveler is the man who uses the helicopter from the city to the airport most. It would seem that he will pay up to a pretty high fare for this saving in time. In other words, the demand there may be relatively inelastic, because there is such a time-saving to him. I think that the manufacturers and the airlines owe these helicopter carriers quite a bit more help. I think the airlines should help them sell this service. Through joint advertising, and a number of other ways, such as through their answering service, the carriers, the airlines, who benefit by extending their air transportation service right into the city center, can help. There is no question but what all elements, pilots, mechanics, union, management, all have to help these people make a go of it. Senator Monroney has been urging that the air carriers assist. I suppose now, for the first time in a long time during the last 3 years, the air carriers are making some money, we all are thinking up ways to use their money. It is just natural that after the deepest deficits which they incurred in the late 1950's and 1960 and even into 1961, now that they are earning a real return on their investment, that a lot of us are thinking up ways to get more user charges out of their use of the airways, and to put some of the load of the transportation system on them. Nevertheless, the opportunities there are not fully exploited in my judgment. Right now, as I understand it, there are interline and joint fare agreements, and in some cases those are being expanded; in others they are not. If the carriers would intensively sell the extension of their air transportation through helicopter carriers, and increase the use of the helicopter services, it seems to me it would generate more traffic for them and maybe even more traffic for the carriers themselves. In Cleveland, Senator Lausche, where there is no scheduled helicopter service now, a recent study showed that approximately 56 percent of the total airline passengers are more convenient to the city center than to the outlying airport. This means that it would be easier for them to board a flight to wherever they are going-New York or Paris, medium or short range or long range, even-than they would to go out to the jetport. I think this is going to be true of a number of cities. Senator LAUSCHE. Let me understand-that they would take the helicopter service from the downtown port out to the Hopkins Airport, which is about 10 or 12 miles? Mr. HALABY. It would be more convenient for them to board their flight at-I believe it is called-Burke, downtown Cleveland, than to go out to Hopkins and board their flight there. Senator LAUSCHE. What would be used? Helicopters? Mr. HALABY. Yes, sir. Helicopters could be used to connect the downtown airport with the outlying jetport. Senator LAUSCHE. They would board it at Burke Airport downtown and fly 12 miles out to Hopkins Airport, and then board the trunkline?