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         HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM             79

 Mr. KAMAN. Yes, sir; that is our position as an industry. I would be glad to elaborate a little further, if the Senator would have me do so.
 Senator HART. I think the record could stand to evaluation.
 Mr. KAMAN. All right. With your indulgence, sir. I think we can trace the introduction of the helicopter quite some years ago to the natural American enthusiasm to recognize great application and great future application.
 The technical achievements established by Mr. Igor Sikorsky and those who followed quickly identified the feasibility technically of this new field, this new era for the helicopter. But in fact, as has been proven, and is also true in allied fields, the economic justification that is bound to ensue took somewhat longer than any of us would have chosen to have at the outset.
 Today great strides have been made in the helicopter industry. The question of reliability is at our fingertips; utilization, increased utilization. The mere fact that a single operator in this country is discussed as to having operated without subsidy is a great achievement in the technical sense.
 It it not reasonable to conclude, therefore, that this technology has leveled. It has not. And at this day and at this time we stand on the threshold of great new achievements and great new movements as we prove the technical feasibilities of still a new generation in the aerospace field. This is generally discussed as the VTOL aircraft, tilt wings, tilt props, various types.
 I think it is clear that these new types must also in their time prove their own economic reliability, with the new future fields to which they will be ascribed. But in the meantime, here we have at our very hands the achievement of virtual self-sufficiency that has gone on for these 17 years with these carriers; and I think on behalf of the manufacturers it is quite clear that once these carriers are proven to be self-sufficient economically, that they can make money, simply, without subsidy, as the testimony that has preceded us indicates they have ascribed to. As this day arrives, I think we can look forward with great encouragement to the fulfillment of the early dream: that truly in America there is great need for expansion to the horizons, and the helicopters and the continued improvement, technologically, of them, and the new devices will arrive and will be applied in cities elsewhere in the country.
 But after all has been done, after the many years by the industry, by the investors, and by the Government in supporting this, to at this time risk the healthy continuation of these carriers to the point of continuance in a meaningful way, as has been stated, is in the eyes of our industry one of grave jeopardy. And therefore our industry strongly recommends that in the broad light of national need, in the broad light of accomplishment and of the future needs, that this experiment be continued to a successful fruition.
 Senator LAUSCHE. Senator Monroney posed two questions this morning as he read his introductory statement. He stated: To what extent can the disparity between costs of vertical as opposed to fixed-wing aircraft be narrowed in percentage terms? Will you discuss that general thought briefly, if you will?
 Mr. KAMAN. Yes, sir. Essentially-to go back for just a moment- essentially the helicopter as it began its operation was confronted with