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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM     109

train or off the bus or private car, or off another line that doesn't have it. This is all part of the excursion. We are talking about real folding money. [Laughter.]

It is going to be necessary, if we are going to be able to persuade the House. You try to sell that to Chairman Thomas.

Mr. TIPTON. I wouldn't be able to.

Senator MONRONEY. I don't think you would even try.

Mr. TIPTON. That is right. I would not.

Senator MONRONEY. He would just blow up right through that microphone. [Laughter.]

Mr. TIPTON. I think that this effort has got to recognized for what it is. 

Let's assume that there were no joint rates. These carriers in New York would have taken home $667,000 that they didn't take home, and they wouldn't have had a helicopter service ---

Senator MONRONEY. We will find out just how much cash they got out of this from the interline exchange when they testify.

At the moment, I am somewhat embarrassed. We have the minority whip of the U.S. Senate, who I invited to come to this meeting this morning because he represents an area vitally affected by this. Because of the schedule which I know is very pressing in the Senate, I would do something we rarely do and ask if you will please step aside so that I might hear him at this point. We will take you in the afternoon, because after we finish with the distinguished minority whip, one of the greatest names in aviation, and certainly one of the greatest names in helicopters, Mr. Sikorsky, is here to testify, and he must also leave by noon.

I know you are a good enough sport to be willing to let this great man of aviation also testify and meet his other commitments as well. If you will excuse us, we will give you time to collect your subsidy figures and we will --- [Laughter.]

Mr. TIPTON. I have them all checked, Senator. But I am, of course, very glad to step aside for these gentlemen.

Senator MONERONEY. We appreciate that. You are always fair about these matters.

Do you have a question?

Senator CANNON. I hope he will be prepared to discuss that in detail this afternoon, because I am thoroughly confused now.

Mr. TIPTON. I will be. I will be delighted to.

Senator MONRONEY. We are glad to have you here, Senator Kuchel. We know of your enduring interest. You have been a battler all the way through, never pulling your flag down to carry the banner of the helicopter service, so that it might become a strong member of the aviation family.

It is with special pleasure that we welcome you to this witness stand to make your statement.

STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS H. KUCHEL, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Senator KUCHEL. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I am delighted to have this opportunity to appear before the Senate Subcommittee on Aviation during your consideration of the present and potential helicopter operations.