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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM   333

We have heard from both Senators from Illinois. We have heard from both Senators from New York, and we have heard from both Senators from California, and all are enthusiastic.

We have heard from one Congressman from Illinois and one from California. But, seriously, there is some work that needs to be done in an educational way to bring the House along to the same high level of aerodynamics that the Senate's state of mind is in.

I think it is going to have to be by example as well as by persuasion.

Mr. WILEY. Senator, could I make this point? I don't disagree that a quarter of a million dollars is a lot of money. On the other hand, this does provide the total of the charges made against New York Airways, not only for the operation of four airports and one heliport, but also for the provision of their ticketing facilities at three airports and at the heliport, and also for their entire general office and maintenance facility.

With that, let us say, substantial, if you will, quarter-of-a-million-dollar payment they make, in spite of that, the helicopter operation has resulted in a deficit for us in 1 year of $188,000, and an accumulated deficit of nearly three-quarters of a million dollars.

Senator MONRONEY. I asked you this at the beginning, and when you get around to it, we will have that figure. How much was out of actual out-of-pocket expenses and how much was due to failure to cover your amortization on the downtown facilities? This is quite important. You can slip in that a few years and pick it up later if this operation is successful.

In other words, you are taking a chance, if you cut your fares temporarily, to help make these profitable institutions. If they become profitable, who benefits the most? You benefit the most because you have a chance, if we can make this thing work, to maybe double-track Kennedy, so that you can carry twice as many flights out of Kennedy as you carry today.

If you get the transportation going out there so that will be possible, you may avoid, though, I don't know how you can, the acquisition of another jet port for the use of that vital complex. It is going to be 5 or 10 years if you start tomorrow. 

Mr. WILEY. That is right.

Senator MONRONEY. You may have to double-track Kennedy before you get this other one built.

Mr. WILEY. This is possible.

Senator MONRONEY. In the meantime, we have to get these people to the airport so they don't miss their planes, to preserve the service which we have pioneered and which you helped to pioneer. Cutting this service off would be a great loss.

You have a $718,000 investment in one building, $500,000 in another, and per chance before you get through, you will be buying some Navy barges, or something to provide some more uptown heliports.

Mr. WILEY. We are holding ourselves ready to meet the demands as they occur, with additional facilities.

Senator MONRONEY. Of all that have a chance of success, I think the New York helicopter operation has had one of the best chances, and Los Angeles the next best. I don't think we are going to be able to get by unless something is done that drastically changes the situation we find ourselves in. That will have to come from the industry working together.