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54

G: Oh, that's nice! The ladder person there.

Y: It's called "Learned Lind Ladder." This is in the Borg Warner collection and they recently came out with an annual report and it's got reproductions of a lot of paintings and it is very well reproduced in it.

G:Is it in black and white or in color?

Y: No, it's in color.

G: You are getting these anthropomorphosized ladders in here.

Y: Hmm. I've always been fond of ladders. As a student I saw Miro and his use of ladders and I have always wanted to incorporate it. 

G: Here you saw your opportunity. she is really very -- one of those curvy, ripply ladies.

Y: A very domineering, dominant. ...

G: Yes, dominant and domineering. It's interesting, so often in these where you even have a head coming on this side, but you have these feet that are sort of legs that are I don't know if they're coming down into or going out of the picture, but one has to read them one way or the other almost. Now that's also before these pictures?

Y: Hmm.

G: Has nice color scheme. That seems to me to be a sort of new shape for you there, almost like a coiled snake kind of thing, although it's a little more regular, coming in from the upper right there, going up there kind of.

Y: Not really, because I did a whole drawing of pipe figures and