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And talk to it. Have friends come over that ah, appreciate it.

question: Did you ever, like when you were painting, think of some form or something?

Yes, very often. But ah you know, it's not a matter of copying it but it's there again another transformation. Actually, this summer I took one of these ashtray figures and did several drawings and paintings of it. But they didn't turn out, ah. They didn't turn out to my expectations, so they were just sort of turned against the wall and ... But I found it interesting just referring to one specific object and doing an interpretation of it, in my own work. I might do it again. yeah, they, they inspire me and influence me, and ah ... there have been a number of people that have come to the, to the home and have seen what I live with or collect and have mentioned the fact that now I think I understand your painting a little better, which I find very rewarding and wonderful. But it has a way to go yet, I guess.

question: The painting or the home

The painting; - and the home. Not some of the objects.

question: You don't make deliberate forays or just like your travels (unintelligible).

Sometimes I do, of course. But very often it's just ah, unplanned trip. And I do enjoy driving through parts of the country that I haven't been to. Or just parts of Chicago and its environs that, you know; I call it "getting to know your city and environment a little better." Instead of taking all the expressways all the time, which are boring, you know those little little roadways that might have a little shop here or there. With sometimes wonderful, unexpected surprises.

question: Have you seen that little house off Ashland Ave.?

Yes. It's quite wonderful.

question: That's really obsessive, right?

I think so, Right.

question: You know when I was making a film about Karl, one thing I was always curious was where he got, how he educated his taste. You know what I mean? When you started out were you buying stuff that was a nice as the stuff you're buying now, do you think?

No, I think I used to make more mistakes. I mean I liked things at the time I bought them, in my earlier years, and somehow later I felt that, you know, it really wasn't that good, and I think the older I get and the more experience, my mistakes are less. But as far as like educating one's self, I think that happens