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26 REYES

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This  question involves the question of roles. The role of teaching doesn't fall on my shoulders right now...at least not entirely. Groups break down communication. With groups cleavages become real and gaps break open. Institutions try to impose cultural imperialism on Chicanos. They try to make brown people into brown whites. I think Chicanos must be avant-garde. They must be involved with obras, the actual painting.

Are you saying that painting and teaching painting are conflicting roles?

For myself yes. At the moment this is a personal conflict I have not resolved. Now I am just painting. Maybe later I can teach. More important than teaching I think is group interaction. This is perhaps the best way to make Chicano artists aware of the Movimiento. There are a lot of artists that are too agabachados. They are good artists, but they are unaware of Chicanos.

Unaware of what Chicanos?

Chicanos en el Movimiento and what they are trying to accomplish.

Would you help make them aware?

Yes. But preferably I would do it through art. If my art is good enough, they will realize this and will want to talk to me.

Do you think that art itself will turn on the ordinary person to the Movement?

Not really. But we can't afford to get discouraged. The fact is that if no art is produced you cannot have an art movement. Art production is thus more important than organizational work. But it's really quite a dilemma. If you organize you can't find the time to paint and vice-versa. The heart of the problem is simply that we don't have enough interested and dedicated people. We are struggling for survival with a few people carrying the entire load.

Going back to the 17 year old student...lets say that he wants to learn technical aspects of art and he goes to and through a conventional institution to refine his creativity. How do you feel about this type of educational process?

It's genocide. When you go to an American University you are stripped of race, of your ethnic background, of everything that deals with economic and political mobility for the mass of the minority group. You become a prisoner and are taught to accept it. The institution becomes an animal. Now, we can say revolution and vamos a tirar chingazos. The question is, however, what is the right way to do things? Should we become animals in order to fight the animals (and in this animal category I also include the police and Texas Rangers who are responsible for brutality)? I think we must be civilized and that this is the best way. We must be sensitive. We must take steps to not become animals. But in this society in order to survive you must be an animal. This is another dilemma, and as artists, we must try to