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11 UM: [[strikethrough]] example, the conceptual artists told me, oh no, Robert Barry said, don't call it this, don't call it that, and the anti-artists would say to you, oh well you see this may be Dushampian or something, is that what you mean. [[/strikethrough]] And Renys in Germany [[strikethrough]] gave me a very beautiful answer. He [[/strikethrough]] said to me Schwitters and Duchamp wouldn't have been such [[strikethrough]] very [[/strikethrough]] superb anti-artists if they hadn't been great artists, and they wouldn't have been such great artists if they hadn't been such great anti-artists. LL: [[strikethrough]] But perhaps that racher/plastic [[/strikethrough]] Reinhardt [[strikethrough]] 's [[/strikethrough]]too, [[strikethrough]] because if you keep he [[/strikethrough]] kept calling [[strikethrough]] these [[strikethrough]] his things anti-art, [[strikethrough]] but/ they were clearly art and [[/strikethrough]] only with art because he was so pro art. of course he was [[strikethrough]] against [[/strikethrough]] anti everybody else's art, and in a sense considered his own art the only [[strikethrough]] art [[/strikethrough]] contemporary art. [[left margin]] [[strikethrough]] was so pro art [[/strikethrough]] UM: [[strikethrough]] What has to be understood - I'll try to bring a definition of that - that [[/strikethrough]] anti-art is to be perceived in the largest sense; that means [[strikethrough]] of [[/strikethrough]] the final integration of the so-called negative. [[strikethrough]] We don't have anymore disposition of pretty and ugly and clean and dirty, but I think that's the point that has to be made. I want to make that in one of the... [[/strikethrough]] LL: But it's still generally interpreted as being against art, and I can't think of a single artist [[strikethrough]] that [[/strikethrough]] working at the moment whose wk I like who could be interpreted as being really against art. [[left margin]] [[strikethrough]] men man 2 [[strikethrough]] [[strikethrough]] UM: Oh yes, the [[strikethrough]] Constructionists [[/strikethrough]] Destructionists, but they are... LL; But they're not really very interesting... UM: They smash the piano, you know, or cut a poor rabbit's... LL: They're anti-piano, as far as I'm concerned! UM: [[/strikethrough]] LL: [[strikethrough]] Well, [[/strikethrough]] Though I must say I like [[strikethrough]] the guys? that are in the [[/strikethrough]] certain guerilla
