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Transcription: [00:30:15]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I know when his daughter was forced to leave.
[00:30:19]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
His daughter was forced to leave?
[00:30:22]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Hm?
[00:30:23]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
You said his daughter was forced to leave?
[00:30:25]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Yes, she and Miss Ida B. Payne.
[00:30:29]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
What was--
[00:30:31]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
--was a city school teacher at the time.
[00:30:34]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And they used to lynch folks here in Memphis, so they told me. I heard of it,
[00:30:41]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
but they said that they drove 'em up and down Beale street, one group of men.
[00:30:49]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Just any kinda tale could be told. At that time, a Black man was in worse shape than he is now.
[00:30:57]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Because, all he had to do was just be born with a Black face and
[00:31:02]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
unless some white person took up for him, he was just considered nothing.
[00:31:11]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm. Why were-- why was Mr. Church's daughter forced to leave?
[00:31:19]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Well, there was some things that she said, and-- and did. And from the looks of 'em, they had to be true.
[00:31:31]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Because they were whiter than some white folks [[laughs]] I know [[honestly?]].
[00:31:37]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And, you know, the majority can raise to be as ruthless.
[00:31:42]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:31:44]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
'Cause it's colored people. It's a bad thing, to get up in front of a congregation, and look at 'em.
[00:31:53]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
You see everybody in the world.
[00:31:57]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Just around, represented. They look just like some folks.
[00:32:03]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And some of those folks, the reason that people try to give 'em and help 'em, was 'cause they-- they can't help it.
[00:32:12]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
But now, like my family,
[00:32:14]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
there wasn't a situation like that.
[00:32:18]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
The only real light-skinned folks I ever saw in my family-- at least ever heard of in my family, I never got to see 'em.
[00:32:29]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm. And d--
[00:32:32]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
'Cause [[really?]], my mother, naturally, was lighter-skinned, I remember it now. Not that much.
[00:32:42]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And to tell me I'm the same color my daddy's mama. So I don't know nothing 'bout his daddy.
[00:32:48]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
'Cause, he didn't know him. 'Cause he was-- he died when he was a young person.
[00:32:56]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm. The Churchills––I mean the Churches were a very fair family?
[00:33:02]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Yea. Yea, they were.
[00:33:05]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
And what kind of things were in that auditorium? What kind of shows?
[00:33:10]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Uh, anything that the represented the best culture of colored folk. That's what we had going on.
[00:33:20]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Like Marian Anderson, and like Roscoe Simmons. He was a great orator at the time, but he couldn't get a hearing in.
[00:33:37]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
They had a theater for, and places for, white people but none for colored.
[00:33:43]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:33:46]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And Church's Park and Auditorium was the place. Now that's where we had our--
[00:33:53]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Kortrech High School had the graduation exercises down there
[00:33:57]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
or anything that concerned the general welfare of colored people,
[00:34:03]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
that's what happened at Church's Park and Church's Auditorium.
[00:34:09]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
But the city of Memphis didn't furnish us no place to do anything but
[00:34:17]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
that section of Beale street that gambled and cursed and did every--
[00:34:24]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
prostitution practiced up and down Front Street.
[00:34:29]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Now James Canan-- I know at some time you heard about Jim Canan's place on or in the First Ward.
[00:34:43]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
What do you want to tell us about--
[00:34:45]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Huh?
[00:34:46]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Tell us about Jim Canan's place.
[00:34:48]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Well, now I never was in there as I told you. [[laughter]]
[00:34:53]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And none of the women in my family were ever in there, though they were born and reared in the neighborhood.
[00:35:04]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
When we moved out here, we moved from a half a block from Jim Canan's home house at 2nd and Overton,
[00:35:16]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
and we lived on the corner of the alley between 2nd-- between Overton and 2nd and Concord.
[00:35:26]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Just a half a block on the opposite side of the street from his home now.
[00:35:32]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
But now, he lived there with his sister, Miss--Miss Kate, and her family, the Pendergrasses.
[00:35:42]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Her daughters, children, they played with the Black children 'round in the neighborhood, see.
[00:35:51]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:35:52]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And they went to St. Bridges, which is St. Theresa's school-- I mean, church.
[00:35:58]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Now, Little Flower. It moved from 3rd and Overton to where it is now.
[00:36:06]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm. What business was this Jim in?
[00:36:12]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Oh, everything that was low-down, they told me.
[00:36:15]

[[laughter]]
[00:36:16]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I never-- see, he--he operated this place on Front Street,
[00:36:22]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
and the police would get in behind colored parents
[00:36:29]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
that would try to get their sons and daughters from up there.
[00:36:35]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Some of the best looking colored people would run away from home and go up there and get in that place,
[00:36:43]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
ya know, 'cause they had heard that that was a great life.
[00:36:47]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And they'd get up there, and then if their families would come to try to get 'em away the police would run them away.
[00:36:54]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
'Cause see, he was running things here in Memphis at that time.
[00:37:01]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
There was gambling?
[00:37:03]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Gambling and prostitution and drug-selling. Just like these folks selling drug--drugs now.
[00:37:13]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
There were places out there in that neighborhood where you could pass Chinese people,
[00:37:19]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
they were operating the laundries and things.
[00:37:20]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And sometimes you'd go by those places, and they-- and over there, they called it Hop then. I don't know what they calling it now.
[00:37:32]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Opium. They'd been smoking that stuff in there.

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Mm. Opium dens. [[Cross talk]]
[00:37:36]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
It would make you sick.

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:37:40]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Nasty place, I didn't like that. They used to do all that tablecloths and um, counter pins.
[00:37:54]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
You know, things that-- heavy quilts and all that kind of stuff.
[00:38:00]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Folks, they did those things regularly in the neighborhood, which you could pass those places where they were smoking that stuff and just letting it sit.

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:38:12]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
So that's nothing new. You just made a choice as to how you wanted to live.
[00:38:21]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Is that why you moved?
[00:38:22]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Huh?

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Is that why your family moved from there, further away?
[00:38:27]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Uh-uh [[negative]]. When they opened this place up out here, that was a good place to buy, good chance to buy a home, and that's why they started buying.
[00:38:39]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
They paid-- you could pay five and ten dollars down on a lot back then.
[00:38:46]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
It cost-- a lot like this one, it was selling for three hundred and fifty dollars.
[00:38:52]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Were there any movie theaters out here then?
[00:38:55]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
No! There weren't nothing out here!
[00:38:57]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
[[laughter]] So--

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
It had been a farm. When they first moved out here, there was still rows of whatever they was planting.
[00:39:08]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
So where did you go for your entertainment?
[00:39:11]

{SPEAKER name= "Lula Adams"}
I didn't come out here dear. [[laughter]]
[00:39:13]

{SPEAKER name= "Louise Spence"}
Oh, you didn't.
[00:39:15]

{SPEAKER name= "Lula Adams"}
My aunties did.
[00:39:17]

{SPEAKER name= "Pearl Bowser"}
Mm.
[00:39:18]

{SPEAKER name= "Lula Adams"}
At least, my aunt next door-- her husband, he paid down on three lots. She was gon' be such an exploder of things, you know.
[00:39:27]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And my mama always had a mind of her own. She wasm't gon' let him put her [[laughs]] out here, and so--
[00:39:39]

{SPEAKER name= "Lula Adams"}
Then-- that left to him with two lots then
[00:39:42]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
on the way they housed the next doors all boarded up.
[00:39:46]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
'Cause I was sweatin' my auntie to give it up.
[00:39:49]

{SPEAKER name= "Lula Adams"}
After he died, 'cause she go the way the folks who moved in, and move out, and you could pay her and
[00:39:56]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
See, and we were living out here at the time
[00:39:59]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
and just-- I asked-- that she don't need-- she didn't have any children.
[00:40:07]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I said now, she just don't need that to be where [[?]]
[00:40:11]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
because it was more hurt than it was help, and I was advised to tell her to give it up, so I did.
[00:40:21]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And she got what she could outta her [[interest?]] [[get outta that?]]. [[But...uh]]
[00:40:30]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I tried to get [[Cissor]], the one that owned [[Lily?]], the one that owned this house.
[00:40:37]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I tried the oldest one. I tried to get her to let Herman [[Gruber?]] really to come and put up a standard olden house.
[00:40:49]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
With standard windows and everything in it.
[00:40:54]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I know-- nobody wouldn't-- I don't know. Just when you don't know, you just don't know.
[00:41:02]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And some people, you know, they wanna do what everybody else is doing
[00:41:08]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And that's not no way to live. You gotta make your own choices, as to how you wanna live.
[00:41:15]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And that's what I had been told all of the time.
[00:41:18]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
But she had this house with her, and it's been given us to deal with ever since. [[Laughs]]
[00:41:32]


{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Because everything you have done has got to be especially done in that size. See, in a standard like that one there next door.
[00:41:43]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Now I don't- I don't have all that trouble with that house,
[00:41:49]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
because standard size windows and doors and window shades and all that kinda stuff, you can get it.
[00:41:59]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
But over here, there wasn't-- I said, Cissor, let Mr. [[Gruber?]] put up a house, and you pick. You gon' intend to live in it all your life.
[00:42:13]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
She had-- she gon' have it done her way, so we had a fireplace put in there,
[00:42:23]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
to help balance the length of this room across here with some kinda solid foundation.
[00:42:33]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
All right, that was an extra expense. Whenever we got window shades or something, I had to cut 'em down in to fit the window.
[00:42:45]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
We've been talking to you for quite a while, and I've got one last question.
[00:42:56]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
I'd like to know what kind of plays you saw in the Church Auditorium?
[00:43:05]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
What kinda plays?
[00:43:07]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Plays. You said that was where Marian Anderson, concerts, and-and others-- that's where people performed.
[00:43:17]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Uh-huh [[affirmative]]. Orators, ya know.
[00:43:19]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Orators, yeah-yeah good. When you say orators, were they uhm preachers or--
[00:43:27]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
No.
[00:43:28]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Th-they recited--
[00:43:29]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Somebody-- some of 'em had a political tone to 'em. Complaints about certain things that were happening at the time.
[00:43:42]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Uh-huh. [[Affirmative]]
[00:43:43]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
If you wanted to hear from the Black person's view, that's where we had to go to do it, see.
[00:43:50]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
I see.
[00:43:52]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Did they show films there on special occasions?
[00:43:54]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Not that I know of.
[00:43:57]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Were there any traveling groups of uh performers that put on plays in the auditorium?
[00:44:09]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
We had-- you had to go the Daisy to see the brown-skinned models and all that. [[Laughs]]
[00:44:18]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Right.
[00:44:19]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
See, and after I got grown, that's where I went to see it.
[00:44:25]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
What about--
[00:44:26]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
A group of friends that thought like I did about it, see.
[00:44:29]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
What about the-- did you ever see a theater company, like the Lafayette Players?
[00:44:38]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
No! [[Laughs]] Daddy, no.
[00:44:44]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Did you go often to the Daisy when you were grownin' to see that stage shows there? You said you went to see the brown-skinned models.
[00:44:51]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Oh, yea. And no, I didn't go that often to see it.
[00:44:58]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Special occasions?
[00:44:59]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Not a special occasion. I just wanted to see what it was like.
[00:45:03]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Uh-huh. [[Affirmative]] What'd ya think it was like? Did you enjoy the show?
[00:45:09]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Some of it I did, and some I didn't.
[00:45:12]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Can you tell us what parts you liked, and which parts you didn't like?
[00:45:16]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Well, some of the jokes were all right, but the thing about it, my boyfriend said that if I wanted to see a naked brown-skinned woman, just undress.

[[Laughter]]
[00:45:30]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
He said, 'cause if you get up close to them, you'll find out they don't look so beautiful.

[[Laughter]]
[00:45:37]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
And I had several friends, ya know, tell me the same thing the men that I grew up with.
[00:45:52]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
See, and I guess, not having any brothers, I learned a lot from men.
[00:46:03]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Were there ever fairs that took place here? Black fairs--
[00:46:12]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
No.
[00:46:13]

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
--that took place in Memphis?
[00:46:14]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
I told you they told me 'bout 'em dragging the men up and down Beale street after they had lynched 'em.
[00:46:22

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Yeah, but I was thinking of a-- like, a state fair.
[00:46:27]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Oh, fair! Yes!

{SPEAKER name="Pearl Bowser"}
Fair. F-a-i-r, yes. [[Cross talk]]
[00:46:32]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Reverend Jill Campbell and some others had what they used to call the Tristate Fair, and that was for Black folk.
[00:46:45]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
You didn't get to go to the other fair.
[00:46:48]

{SPEAKER name="Louise Spence"}
Was that nice?
[00:46:50]

{SPEAKER name="Lula Adams"}
Unless somebody, ya know, just wanted to care some way, which no one did--
[00:46:56]

Transcription Notes:
Confusion between Pearl Bowser and Louise Spence. Surely Pearl Bowser is the principal interviewer here. Jim Canan or Conand? Unsure of the spelling here. Cissor? Correct spelling? ---------- Reopened for Editing 2023-04-04 16:29:08 ---------- Reopened for Editing 2023-04-04 21:30:22 ---------- Reopened for Editing 2023-04-04 22:55:53 ---------- Reopened for Editing 2023-04-05 08:43:58