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forget which one, said they couldn't use an ornithologist, what they wanted was a herpetologist. So he made himself into the best herpetologist in the world. That is a true story. He was a wonderful old man. His wife was German; she was fine too. They were both of them very hospitable.

HENSON:   Did you also know Austin [Hobart] Clark?

MANN:     Yes indeed. I met the Austin Clarks on one of those weekends when I came down here from New York, so I met them before we were married. We used to go to their house practically every Sunday evening. Mary would make Welsh Rarebit and have people in. Then Mary died, and Austin married Leila [F.], who was a librarian at the Smithsonian. They were also very good companions. Bill and I used to go on collecting trips with them. Austin had an old Ford, I think it was a Model T. He called it Henrietta. That was when he was writing his book on the butterflies of Virginia. He was doing them by counties. Bill and I went with them weekend after weekend, and sometimes for a week or two at a time. We'd camp out or we'd stay in some dismal little dive for the night. He was wonderful company, and she was too; they were delightful people.

While Austin was collecting butterflies, Bill, of course, was collecting ants and beetles. I remember one time it was a Sunday night we were coming back from somewhere and stopped out in the country, in Virginia, quite a while before we got into Washington, turned off into a little lane and Austin turned off the ignition, and Bill said, "What are