Deaf Folkore: Deafness in the Family Workshop, JUN 24 1981

Web Video Text Tracks Format (WebVTT)

WEBVTT

00:00:10.000 --> 00:01:01.000
[[sound of reversed tape]]

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:06.000
[[reaching end of reversed tape, pause]]

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:14.000
Jo Radner: --included both deaf and hearing members. It's been a custom for a long time at the Folklife Festival to

00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:27.000
celebrate family folklore, the family, that basic group of people, that develops traditions, develops very close traditions together; nicknames, water throwing, whatever you like.

00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:38.000
Umm, and today we have the special privilege of being able to get an idea of the traditions that develop within families whose members are all or partially deaf.

00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:46.000
Uhh and we have people who have several different kinds of life experiences, work experiences that bear on that kind of question.

00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:53.000
I won't talk any longer I will just ask our participants in turn to introduce themselves, to tell you their names,

00:01:53.000 --> 00:02:04.000
where they come from, what they do when they're not at the Folklife Festival and then we'll begin telling some stories. [[quietly]] Would you begin?

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.183
[[Breath on the mic]]
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): My name is Barbara Kannapell--

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:20.000
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): I'm from Washington, D.C. and I work at Gallaudet College as a linguist - linguist specialist working with a group of people developing materials at Gallaudet College.

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:37.000
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Name is Bill Ennis. Make sure that he can read me. [Pause] I live in Greenbelt, Maryland [pause] and, uh [interpreter chuckles], there's a women behind the interpreter now. [Pause]

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:43.000
I work for the USDA as a programmer.

00:02:43.000 --> 00:03:04.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): My name is Lilly Burke. I live in Greenbelt, Maryland also - I'm a neighbor of Bill. And, uh, really I'm originally from New York I've moved around, now I live here and I work for the Government at the Veteran's Administration.

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:13.000
Don Pettingill: Do you mind if I stand up I simply cannot wait sitting on my, on my, on my ass. [[Jo Radner chuckles]]

00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:26.000
I'm Don Pettingill, Director of the Demonstration Programs at Gallaudet College Adult Education. And I'm going to introduce you right now to a deaf man and his microphone.

00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:39.000
That's going to drive you crazy and does me too because everyone's now gonna get excited-- [[excited tones, scratching and shuffling on the mic]]

00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:53.000
Jo Radner: [[laughs]] Thank you [laughs]. I'd like to start things off today by asking a couple of questions uh, of these people, after that I think you all should feel free to ask questions or to share your own experiences if you like.

00:03:53.000 --> 00:04:12.000
I'd like to start asking each of these participants in turn, uh, to tell you a little bit about deaf and hearing members in their family, what the family structure was like, and how they communicated at home in the family, with one another. Barbara would you like to begin?

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.307
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): Alright.

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:34.000
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): First, my sister was born in, uh, uh--deaf parents. She is about five years older than I am, and she's a hearing person. That means she was the only hearing person in the whole deaf family.

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:51.000
Next I was born, and I was born deaf, to deaf parents. And also I have a deaf uncle and aunt, and another aunt. Uh, that's five in terms of deaf relatives in my family.

00:04:51.000 --> 00:05:00.000
And I always considered them as all the family, all during my life, being growing up. We shared all in the same house, and so forth.

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:09.000
And when my dad was gone to work, I'd run down to see my uncle downstairs and watch my uncle help, uh, other deaf people.

00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:18.000
Often deaf people would come to see my uncle for help, so forth, and I would see so many different people.

00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:34.000
How do we communicate in the family? We use sign language. We, uh, talk that way all the time. And as soon as I was born that's what I saw, all my life growing up, until I was about four.

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:49.000
I was really puzzled at that time because my parents were considering sending me to an oral school. Decided to send me to a special class for deaf children in a public school.

00:05:49.000 --> 00:06:00.000
So I went, it was a different kind of experience. You know what the oral program means? It means that I was not allowed to use sign language in the oral school. They did not allow it.

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:11.000
In the special class, uh, the teacher wanted, uh, us to behave like we were hearing children; to behave that way, not to behave like we were deaf people.

00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:21.000
When we went into that school, that oral school, we had to learn how to talk, how to lip-read, how to use the, uh, the amplifying, amplification system, that type of thing.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:27.000
When I'd come home I'd use sign language. I went to school, I couldn't use sign language at all.

00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:41.608
Often, uh, when the teacher would be looking, writing on the blackboard, or looking away, I would teach the other kids how to sign, to the other deaf students. You know? Behind her back. And it was like that for six years.

00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:52.000
{SPEAKER name="Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter)} While that, uh, six years of oral school, I come home, my parents'd be signing, my sister hadn't learned signs yet.

00:06:52.000 --> 00:07:14.000
She was trying to be, uh, a speech therapist for me, sort of speak. She'd sit down, like when I was four, she would be eight or so and she'd be trying to help, help me to teach, hold my side, side of my throat,and side of my face. And it was really boring, I couldn't stand it. I wanted to go out and play.

00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:30.000
Using sign language in the family, I believe using some American sign language, and some signed English. And I see how my parents, they are deaf, how they communicated with my hearing sister. I watched them; they used sign, and speak and sign at the same time.

00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:47.000
So I'd be able to follow their conversation. I'd be listening in, and, you know, and in a way it would be like deaf speech, used to their voice. But my parents did not use their voice when they went out in public, and with the hearing people. But in the family, yes they did.

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:57.000
Looking back I'm puzzled that my sister did not, uh, learn sign. She should've become, um, be-- had become an expert interpreter.

00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.000
And I asked the reason the why she didn't learn it.

00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:10.000
She said, "I thought we communicated fine in the family. I was good at finger spelling and homemade signs." So that was interesting. I guess that's enough for me.

00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:18.000
Jo Radner: Thank you very much. Bill, would you like to tell us a little bit about your family?

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:23.000
[[loud drums in background]]
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Well, that's a really rough time, I really enjoy those Indian drums.

00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:31.000
Jo Radner: [[laughter]] I don't know why they put us next to the Indians. Possibly they thought it wouldn't bother us.

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:40.000
[[laughter]] But, I think it's one of the few things that a great many of our deaf participants can hear, right? Can you feel that?

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:46.000
John Ennis: Yes. Getting responses, yes, yes.
Jo Radner: Okay, Bill, go right ahead.

00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:54.320
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Well, Barbara is saying I have to speak louder than the drums. And since my parents were hearing, they leaned to sign. My mom is an interpreter

00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:10.000
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): I have two brothers, one is here. Who's interpreting is my, one of my brothers. He's a member of the "Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf." And then I have a third brother who, another brother who's deaf.

00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:32.000
I guess when I was about five or six, my parents begin to learn signs. At that time she was a PTA president, encouraged to set up a sign language class for parents who had deaf children. That was back in 1951, '52, somewhere about '53. I think that was pretty unusual, or perhaps unheard of, for them to be signing at that time in the home.

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:46.000
Now one, uh, thing I do remember,a story very well. When I, guess I had some kind of problem, in that I was be-- that I was deaf.

00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:55.000
I wanted to join a little league baseball, uh, team for the summer. And I thought, man I was a fantastic baseball player.

00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:09.000
I just felt I was a good athlete, but my problem was when I wanted to join the team I though: "Huh, what about I ask my ma if I get John, make him come with me?" Make him come, go with me to the-- uh, so my mom decided to encourage both of us to go.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:22.000
We drove over to the field, and I saw all those boys going over there for the try out. I decided, uh, John got out of the car and I decided no. I decided I don't want to go.

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:35.000
I felt, uh, to go all through those process of communication and I just hated everybody staring at me. Maybe looking at me as if I was something different. I was having all these problems with that.

00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:42.000
My mom said, "Get out. Go play baseball. Go on. You wanted to play, go on." I said, "Yeah, I did, but I think I'd really go home. Take me home."

00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:55.000
Mother finally pushed me and then got her foot up on the seat and shoved me out of the car. [[laughter]] And I was, "What you--? What in the world are you doing, mom? Wait." She shut the door and took off. [[laughter]]

00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:11.000
And I guess, uh, I'm really grateful for that; of course now. It was rough then. My little brother had-- I was following him. I'd get in front of him, and lead him over there to the try outs. We made it and we had-- everything worked out real well.

00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:21.000
Not long ago I was talking to my mom about those old days. And I said, "Do you remember that you had to push me out?" She says, "Oh,no, I never did anything like that." I said, "Yes, I remember you pushed me out of the car."

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:29.000
Mom started thinking about, she is, "Yes, yes, I guess. I really do remember. It really hurt me to do that to you. It made me cry all the way home."

00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:35.000
But I was really-- I told her, "I was really glad you did that, because it, that was a very good. We had a good old time playing baseball."

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.871
Jo Radner: Thank you very much. That was a fun--

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.000
Jo Radner: Lilly would you like to share something with us about your family?

00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:44.000
Lilly Burke: Yeah!

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:49.000
Jo Radner: Sure, please stand up if you feel more comfortable

00:11:49.000 --> 00:12:00.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): I have a deaf family like Barbara's, deaf parents, deaf sister, and and ah and one grandmother is hearing.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:05.000
The rest of us are all deaf, she's an outcast I guess, I don't know.

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:12.000
But went to a deaf school in Europe - Vienna, Austria, was raised there.

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:18.000
Then the war came, broke out, and all our family got together and came to America.

00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:26.000
We had a hard time getting into America because the four of us deaf, that time the United States was a little in the midst of a war--

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.000
[[coughing]]

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:36.000
--between Europe and the US, and then they have to take the responsibility of bringing in 4 deaf immigrants.

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000
Well we got into the United States.

00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:43.000
[[pause]]

00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:48.000
My mom and my uncle were working and I got into school, and it was an oral school.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:15:56.000
Some people ask me "Why, if you have a deaf family did you go to an oral school?" because my parents didn't know much about it really, they didn't know any better.

00:15:56.000 --> 00:13:03.000
People said "This a good school, a real good school, oral school is good", so my parents said ok, we will put 'em in there.

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:16.000
I knew German at home and German sign language. Cause I got into school and I went there and I learned English, and I taught my parents, my mother, I would sometimes teach her the signs.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:21.000
My family did not have any problem communicating at home but at school its really tough with the oral

00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:26.000
and I had deaf friends who could sign, that I would hang around with. I guess that's all.

00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.000
Jo Radner: Thank you.

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.000
[[clapping]]

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.000
Jo Radner: Don, how 'bout you?

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:42.000
Don Pettingill: I lost my hearing when I was five from the German measles. There was no psychological imbalance

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:55.000
because my father was very hard of hearing. And I had eight brothers and sisters and every time I started feeling sorry for myself because my brothers and sisters were picking on me.

00:13:55.000 --> 00:14:02.000
And I'd say "They were picking on me because I'm deaf". And my brothers and sisters would say, "So what you're deaf, so what?"

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:11.000
And I grew up with a very healthy attitude about my deafness. But my mother never really accepted my deafness.

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:21.000
You know how mothers are. She was always trying to find ways to get my hearing back. I remember when I was little

00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:40.180
they took me to a doctor, some witch doctor, who used snake oil in my ear. And then those Indians over there remind me of something else, they took me out to the Indian reservation and had the medicine man

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.000
Don Pettingill: trying to get my hearing back. Obviously it didn't work. They took me to a chiropractor. [[laughter]]

00:14:51.000 --> 00:15:14.000
There I was six years old and I didn't know what was going on. I didn't understand. Finally as a last resort, I had an aunt in California who convinced my family that if I went to California and spent the summer in faith healing that I'd get my hearing back.

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:25.000
So they sent me to Los Angeles, and to that big church there, I mean simple church in Los Angeles.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:52.000
The first Sunday, I couldn't ask questions because there were too many people. Then on Monday morning I had to go to the church to go into the classroom and be prayed over, and I'm sitting there and all of a sudden one man jumped up, got down on the floor, started rolling around.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:06.000
I'm shaking with terror and I said to the guy next to me, "What's the matter with him?" And my father said, "Oh, he's filled with the Holy Spirit." I didn't want any of that. [[laughter]]

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:23.000
So every morning I would get up and I would pray and I would go head for the church but I never went back. I began to roam the whole city of Los Angeles. A little boy, eight years old. Boy, that was a wonderful experience! [[laughter]]

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:57.280
Now, 24, I learned about other people's God and my God. That church had a huge revival, fundraising revival. And I was trained to get up on the stage before a microphone in front. "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord." I can hear better than I did. And I got my first standing ovation. 5,000 strong.

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:09.000
Don Pettingill: I couldn't hear a bit better. [[laughter]] But I know today that I helped that church raise about a hundred thousand dollars right now. [[laughter]]

00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:19.000
So, all kinds of things happen to deaf children growing up. And when you have a morbid sense of humor, there's no hope.

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:38.000
[[applause]]
Jo Radner: Thank you. Of course, you were probably luckier than some people, Don, with hearing parents. Sounds as if your parents and your family were more understanding than some kinds of hearing parents.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:49.000
Barbara Kannapell, our participant here on this side, is a founder of a very unusual organization which has done a lot of good work with parents of deaf children.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:05.000
I wonder if you might tell us a little bit about your work and about what you've discovered about the attitudes of deaf, of hearing parents of deaf children.

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:24.000
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): Deaf Pride Organization which was founded by three people, uh the three women; myself, who is a deaf person, a hearing person, and a mother of a deaf son, the three of us realized that we needed to establish an organization,

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:42.000
cause there was many organizations out there like an organization for parents, an organization for deaf people, an organization for professional workers with the deaf and so forth, but we needed, none of it, none of it all came together and we wanted to establish a group called Deaf Pride.

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:57.000
So through that Deaf Pride we've learned a lot about working with families. I realized that growing up and socializing with deaf people all my life, I never really experienced socializing with hearing people.

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:05.910
Very little, very little. Until I met this hearing person who introduced me to the mother of a deaf son, I began

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:15.000
Barbara Kannapell/ John Ennis (interpreter): communicate with him and they begin to, the mother was like, hungry, starved for more information. How did deaf people feel?

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:29.000
Was asking questions and I explained all about my different feelings of deafness growing up and so forth. I realized that uh, you know really, deaf people growing up are very active in different organizations and so forth,

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:39.000
but never really worked with families who have deaf children and I realized that deaf people, are, uh, just leave it to the professionals.

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:57.000
And have the professionals, professionals that take care of the people and the parents and so forth, and the deaf have just stood back for so long, so I decided to set up a workshop to bring together families of deaf children and deaf people at the workshop, which was very successful.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.000
And a lot of deaf people were sharing with the parents, and the parents were sharing with them,

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:20.000
and you know remember, the first deaf person's parents, you know the first time hearing people meet a deaf person is really their own child, and they never really know how to deal with it and they ask the professionals how and they learn from them, learn to talk, learn to use hearing aids,

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:30.000
and not very much more than that other than like, you know socialize with deaf people, tell them that they have their own culture and their own clubs, but they just focus on the speech and that's all.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:40.000
Being there and some other deaf people there to share their feelings, the parents really felt much better about themselves, they had a lot of questions to ask like, uh,

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:49.000
one mother asked a deaf person "Why does my son scream in the bathroom?! Why?!" and we laughed.

00:20:49.000 --> 00:21:02.000
We laughed about that, because I've had that experience before. In my dormitory at the residential school, I'd get real close to the wall and just holler in the bathroom and I could hear the echoes all around in the bathroom!

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:11.730
Maybe that boy was learning and experiencing that in the bathroom, shut the door and just holler and then he could hear and feel the echoes bouncing off the bathroom wall. That's one example

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:25.000
Barbara Kannapell/John Ennis (interpreter): is just sharing. I can see myself as, uh, a valuable resource to the parents of deaf children. And also the parents are a valuable resource to us, and the exchange is good.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:36.000
The philosophy we believe is that each one has value, and each, to offer, and all of their experiences are important. Thank you. [clapping]

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:46.000
Jo Radner: Thank you. Now one thing that, that deaf people can offer to hearing people is some experience of, of what deafness is like.

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:53.000
I'm constantly surprised how many hearing adults I meet who have never in their lives met a deaf person, among other things.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:06.000
Deafness seems to not only be invisible, but very private in some ways. And when you belong to a family where most of the people are deaf, as for instance in your case Lilly,

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:15.000
sometimes you develop kinds of folk traditions that, um, well, they are different from the kinds of things that hearing families have to develop.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:30.000
I wonder if you could tell people about your uncle's inventions. Ah, the way he invented a doorbell in Austria, for your family, and maybe some, some traditions in your family.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:38.000
Maybe the rest of you want to add to this too. [Clears throat]. In about how you hear a baby, when it cries at night, if you're deaf.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:48.000
How do you maintain a deaf family? Some problems, I think, people don't often think about. Could you tell us the story of your uncle's doorbell?

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:57.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): Yeah, the doorbell. Alright, um, one of my, Tom's favorite stories, over there. When I was little I remember looking back.

00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:05.000
Today is you know we have doorbells when we come to our home and it flashes a light. There's no problem with that.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:18.000
As I look back I remember that when I was little my hearing grandmother always would hear for us. She was our ears for us, so to speak all the time. One time my grandmother had to go somewhere.

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:25.000
My family were all deaf we couldn't hear. Michael said to me, "I expect someone to come, that afternoon. What are we going to do?

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:35.660
What are we going to do? We won't hear him knocking on the door." So we thought, okay we tied and made a connection through the door outside, and put a string under the door

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:50.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): and tied it to a chair in the living room. A long string, very strange looking thing. And we played around and were very curious as to what would happen.

00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:03.000
Later, some time later, a big boom and vibration and that chair was bouncing across the floor, somebody was at the door, and we're all excited and we ran and opened the door and sure enough, somebody was there at the door!

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:12.000
What they did, they saw the string there was a little sign said "please pull the string" on the outside of the door and so they started pulling it, and it bounced that chair across the floor.

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:29.000
I remember it was so exciting to feel and see, we had such a good feeling about that. And I remember, you know we have baby criers that we call, a little device that has a microphone by the bed and it goes and it blinks a light, when there's crying that's no problem.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:39.000
But in the past, my mother said, you are lucky that you have that today. Back when I was raising you, we always had to get up, my grandmother would get up and wake up the mother say "your baby's crying."

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:50.000
Or if there was nobody around to alert her, she'd go and she'd tie a string on the baby's arm and tie it to her arm.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:25:03.000
And so when the baby started moving she knew the baby was waking up. Or she'd put her hand on the baby's bed and fall asleep there and then she'd, when the baby started rolling around would feel the vibration and wake up.

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:14.000
I have two hearing children, I have four children, two are hearing and two are deaf. And always feel good to have that rich experience.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:31.000
Jo Radener: Thank you. Let's stop at this point and see if anyone in the audience would like to share an experience or ask a question of our participants?

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.000
Yes.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:57.000
[[inaudible question from audience]]

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.600
Jo Radner: Do you mean, printing machines? Are deaf people learning to operate electronic printing machines

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:17.000
Don Pettingill: When one door closes, another always opens.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:27.000
I remember years ago when I was a rehab counselor, and the push button cycles came along. We were all worried about what deaf people would do.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:37.000
When line type, when I was a printer, when the line of type, when deaf people proved they were wonderful code typers.

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Also when the push button cycles came along, at first people said, "Deaf people could not be programmers."

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:57.000
But, it turned out they are some of the best. Because they can just figure it out very.

00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:07.000
And they have very practical minds, and they just figure it out. So, yes, deaf people are getting more and more involved in the electronics field.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Jo Radner: Mmh hmm [[affirmative]], Lilly you have something you want to add?

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:24.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): You know many deaf people work at the Washington Post. They are not worried because they are preparing--the Linotype is being faced out and they are going to the TTS the machine what they call, call type.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:31.000
And they're being trained on them and going to school, its not a problem.

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:38.000
Jo Radner: In fact, Bill, you're a computer programmer, right? At your work maybe--

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.000
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Yes.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:48.000
Jo Radner: If you don't mind going a bit off the topic of families maybe you could talk a little about how you get along at your work as a programmer and as a deaf person.

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.000
Any problems there or how do you manage?

00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:02.000
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Well, not really, I never saw that as a problem as a computer programmer --uuhm-- lets see

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:15.000
counting, there are 9 people, that work in that office, 2 are deaf, so that leaves, uh, 6, lets see

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:23.000
4 out of the other 6, know sign language. My supervisor is very good at it, at signing.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.350
So the communication really is not a problem.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:38.000
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Usually a lot of it's written down, written instructions, on the jobs that have to be done, they're put on my desk and I take care of it from there.

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:52.000
Often the other two deaf workers there, they're programmers, they're senior programmers and they helped me out a lot, when I wasn't sure how to get the work done, I'd go and ask "What do I do now?" and the other deaf programmers would help me.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:02.000
Working with COBOL, writing, writing using COBOL.

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Jo Radner: Do you, you also teach sign language at your work, don't you?
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Oh yes.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:14.000
Jo Radner: So you've helped a number of your hearing coworkers also.
William Ennis/John Ennis (interpreter): Yeah.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:31.000
Jo Radner: Are there other questions from the audience? Yes? [[inaudible audience question]]

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Did you--the question is can you sign in other languages or is there a universal sign language?

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:45.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): It's different. ASL and the German sign language is totally different. Different signings.

00:29:45.000 --> 00:30:01.000
The movements may be similar but it's different signing. And you know some people are developing a new book, on trying to develop a universal sign language and someday the book may come out and then people could use that to sign together.

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:05.000
But right now I know that the German sign language is totally different.

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:18.000
For example, in American Sign Language for mother you use this sign, father that way, in German it's mother, father. This way, mother, mother. What's she, I can't see.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:31.990
Audience member: Mother, mother.
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): Mother. Oh, mother is that way. Mother this way, father this way, father, for German it's like that. Father. Similar movements there.

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:45.000
Lilly Burke/John Ennis (interpreter): the sign language is totally different. My family, my mother as I watched her, I think she used GSL, German ASL, that kind of thing.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:56.000
Jo Radner: Thank you. Are there other questions?

00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:18.000
Marcella R. Erdman/Sheila Grenell (interpreter): My parents are deaf, and I became deaf when I was three years old. My brother was the first one born. He had normal hearing and I was the second, I had a second broth-- I was the second born, hearing, and I became deaf when I was three.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:33.000
My sister was born, she had normal hearing, okay, but with my mother, before the children were born, for the doorbell she would, she bought a dog.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:41.000
And she depended on the dog all the time, when the door bell, or when the dog would move or something she would know that someone was at the door.

00:31:41.000 --> 00:32:01.000
So she would depend on the dog. When my brother was born, she could--did the string like Lilly's mother did. And at night if it pulled. Then when I was born my brother would just wake me up or wake her up or say the baby was crying or something.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:19.000
A long time ago, you could, you used to leave the door open all day and all night. So someone could just walk in without knocking. It's different from today. Someone can break in your house even if you lock the door.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:27.000
But now they have the electronic devices. But a long long time ago, you just left your doors open and anyone could come in.

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:33.000
They just didn't go upstairs but they would just walk in the house and wait for you to come down, like that.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:40.650
But as my brother was growing up, my mother was never with the dog. She would

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:54.000
Marcella R. Erdman/Sheila Grenell (interpreter): dog during the day most of the time, just depending on the dog, before the electronic things came about.

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.000
Jo Radner: Thank you very much for sharing that with us. We wouldn't leave our houses open today. [chuckle]

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:12.000
I think we have time perhaps for one last question or one last comment, and then we're going to have to close. Any more?

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:23.000
Well thank you very much. I'd like to thank our participants first for sharing their experiences with us. I'd like to thank you. [[applause]]

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:35.000
And I'd like to invite any of you in who's interested to join our class in American Sign Language, an introduction to how you actually sign,

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:49.000
in our other tent which will be beginning in just a couple of minutes. Please come and visit us there. This is our last program in this tent for today. We open up again at 11 o'clock tomorrow morning. Thank you.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:40:24.264
[SILENCE]