Moses Moon Civil Rights Recordings 1963-1964: Washington, DC; after November 22, 1963(OT_N18)
Web Video Text Tracks Format (WebVTT)
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Norman Thomas: Well I've pressed that's a very good question, it's divided in two parts.
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First, is it only a presumption that we're on the way or pretty far along a Garrison State.
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No, it's a good deal more than a presumption.
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I am going to quote a general, named Dwight Eisenhower, who was President of the United States, who warned against the military industrial complex, which has such power.
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A Garrison State is a state in which the final decision is largely determined by military considerations.
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In our times, you don't have to live like Spartans to be under a Garrison State, but this leads me to a partial answer to your first question.
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I said, and it would take me charts and the rest of it to prove it.
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I said that the proper basis for prosperity isn't a expenditure on things, that nobody uses.
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Piling up things we don't use, weapons enough to destroy the world, is not through a economic process. It's a political progress, necessitating some people think for defense.
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Maybe it is, but I am saying this is an additional reason to work for disarmament under international control and other things necessary for peace.
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I am saying that if you have to have it for defense, you've got to exempt pretty much of a Garrison State.
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Now, I will agree, I think, that in a Garrison State there can be civil rights, that is to say, everybody be treated as long as their jobs
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but civil rights in principle and in theory, certainly are a part of civil liberties and there can't be civil liberties because of the discriminations of the Garrison State are [[acted?]] along the lines of what you think
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and I don't think that I want to conquer unemployment by a draft.
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Spending so many anointed men into the army, every year .
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This isn't the way I want it done.
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Now, maybe I'm being unfair you're preoccupied with a tremendous struggle,
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but it is a struggle, that can't be separated from other struggles and I, I just want to remind of this
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We've got a Garrison State, partly because, the way you get re-elected to Congress,
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in the House, is very largely: 'How much bacon did you bring to the district?'
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that means military contacts, not schools.
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Not hospitals.
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Military contacts. Not education. Military.
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That's what I mean.
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I mean that when Eisenhower, I think [[??]] said five million workers are polling directly independent.
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A lot of corporations make their profits out of, they might make them otherwise.
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A third of all our engineers and scientists are devoted to it.
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Um, half of all our research money is not unoften pulled out of unemployment,
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but how can you, how can you get more deadly weapons(--)scientifically.
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This is a characteristic of a Garrison State
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and it is not in that atmosphere that you will get the fair and full employment,
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which you and every other decent American wants to have.
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That's as good as I can do in a short time. [[clapping]]
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[[background voice]] We would like [[??]] one more point tonight gentlemen and I'm sorry, I cannot I [[inaudible]]
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It has been the, uhm, Department of Defense (--)
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in many instances with [[??]] of, uhm,
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government contracts, in the Southern states, with corporations that located their facilities in Southern states
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they have been the forerunner in,
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acquiring and maintaining and acquiring that these corporations
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exercise the system of fair and employment for all
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and that these persons be heard, regardless of their race, [[breed?]] Or color.
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Do you not agree that it has been
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the Department of Defense has been a forerunner in, granting, full and impartial employment?
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Norman Thomas: No.
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[[applause]]
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Norman Thomas: Wait a minute! They need the, the Depart ( -- ) [[Cross Talk]]
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Wait just a moment. Wait just a moment.
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Now wait a moment, this is our program and we're gonna run how we wanna run it.
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Norman Thomas: I think I heard your question, I'd like to answer, but if you don't want to hear the answer, well, that's alright.
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Norman Thomas: The Defense Department has done better than a good many other departments,
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but to call it the forerunner, a pioneer ( -- )
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My goodness.
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Norman Thomas: They have done it partly because of the row you folks stirred up. Because ( -- )
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[[applause]]
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Norman Thomas: Because, there's one thing defense people do have sense enough to realize,
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and that is that you have to have a pretty homogeneous people behind you.
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But I'll tell you a little history,
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[[??]]still here? I think you'll bear me out, if he's around,
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but, anyway, it's true, even without his endorsement.
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The guy that really broke down Jim Crow and the army, more than any other guy, was A. Philip Randolph. You know that, don't you?
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[[applause]]
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And he did it, he did it with the least money I ever knew.
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I lent him office space for some of his young people to work, and we had - he had, I didn't
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an organization for something or other, but abolished Jim Crow and the army, got denounced in Congress, and all the rest.
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But he made awful progress. And I think there are two fellas, Bill Worthy and Bill Sutherland, that devoted the work,
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they used to come in and collect [[the mail?]].
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But nevertheless, he who is remembered for what he'd said about the march on Washington
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he more than any man in the United States is responsible for the fact that in the army, and also in the employment connected with the army,
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there was a pretty, a fairer break for Negroes than anywhere else.
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Norman Thomas: But, I am a little astonished to find an organization like yours that's working for so many high ideal things,
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who say that the only way you can manage to get fair employment for Negroes
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is to continue an arms race that is more likely an if indefinitely continued,
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to lead to war, than to peace.
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[[laughter]]
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[[man in audience]] We don't say that!
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James Forman: What I was about to say is, this is an open meeting
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Norman Thomas: Well I,
James Forman: Wait just a moment. Everybody in here is not necessarily a member of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.
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Now, we're not gonna have a screening test to find out who is and who is not, [[clapping]]
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but all these ideas don't represent us. [[clapping]]
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Norman Thomas: I, I realize that, and I just took a rhetorical privilege 'you', I meant him.
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Norman Thomas: and I know your general position and I'm glad you've made it plain.
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I like open meetings.
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One of my troubles is that I talk too often to the already almost converted, [[laughter]]
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and that's not so good.
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So, I welcome the gentlemen.
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[[background voice 1]] Another question.
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[[background voice 2]] No, I was going to say I think the young man should also bear in mind,
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that even in the area, the Georgia area,
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the division of jobs and securing of jobs for Negros didn't come automatically,
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[[Cross Talk]] [[background voice 2]] well I think that it implies that the Defense Department
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had been great forerunner and [[carried?]] unequal employment,
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that led up [[??]].
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This is the truth. [[Speaker 1]] No, I was misquoted. I do not believe this is the only area, I'm saying why exclude this area,
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when this is an area that has been [[??]] everywhere.
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Norman Thomas: well there not real [[??]] of facts, let's go on.
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[[background voice 1]] I have given you ample time, so can we get another question over there.
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Question.
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[[background voice 3]] I'd like to ask Mr. Thomas what suggestions he might have made
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regarding the old [[??]] civil rights organisations,
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I don't want to name names ( -- )
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that, almost insist on converting themselves into enemies,
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of the Civil Rights Movement as it is today,
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or at least [[??]] the rest of them?
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Norman Thomas: No, I think you're kind of putting me in a spot I don't want to be in.
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Let me say this.
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If, If you want me to come as a white man, an old man
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not intimately connected with all that's happening
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and, begin to say that some organisations in the Negro appeal are wrong and some are right,
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I'm not gonna do it. I think it would be a presumptuous thing for me to do,
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and I have lived long enough to find that you need cooperation of organisations
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in peace for instance,
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that don't agree all together,
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some of which I like much better than others.
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But, there are all kinds of people in the world and and there all kinds of ways
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Norman Thomas: One of the things that I admire more than I could tell you about the march on Washington, was the extraordinary expression it seemed to give,
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of a united demand of the negro people supported by many of their white friends.
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It lifted me up on a plain that I don't think I was ever on,
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but I can't say that I've always stayed on it.
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But this was the work of a cooperative group which makes me believe that you can workout cooperation.
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Meanwhile, which methods I prefer,
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are not properly the subject of this discussion and this program where I was invited to talk about, particularly about one thing.
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[[background voice 1]] Let's have a couple more questions.
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[[background voice 1]] We have about three minutes. Three or four minutes.
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That's now it. Mr. Thomas we thank you for coming.
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Norman Thomas: Well I thank you for the chance [[clapping]]
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Norman Thomas: I would like to say, [[clapping]]
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Norman Thomas: I want to pronounce [[inaudible]] [[clapping]]
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Norman Thomas: This is a chapel and I want to pronounce a kind of benediction at least I want us to have a definite last word.
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I'm enthusiastic for questions. I like to be questioned by people who don't agree with me.
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It educates me and I hope it educates them.
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But, but, I want you to know that I came for one purpose,
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to express my admiration towards SNCC, my hope is for its future
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and my thoughts on what I was asked particularly to talk about
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which is the fundamental question of employment, which underlies even housing and the rest. Thank you very much.
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We appreciate that and feel that any other questions are not necessarily relevant
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and as I expressed to you, this is sort of, this is an open meeting
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and people are coming in and raising various questions.
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Thank you very much. Alright, 3:30. [[clapping]]
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Singer: We shall not be moved, we shall not
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oh just like a tree that's planted by the water,
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woah we shall not be moved.
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oh we're on our way to victory, we shall not be moved.
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we're on our way to victory,
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Oh just like a tree, that's planted by the water
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oh We shall not be moved
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Oh segregation is our enemy, it must be removed
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Segregation is our enemy,
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Oh just like a [[?]] in the [[?]]
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It must be removed
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oh we shall not, we shall not be moved
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We shall not
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Oh just like a tree that's planted by the water,
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Oh, we shall not be moved
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[[background talking from audience and speakers talking amongst themselves]]
unknown speaker 1: Is [[?]] out there, [[?]], Chuck [[?]]?
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unknown speaker 2: They're downstairs.
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unknown speaker 1: Alright, we want some more strong singers, Samuel Bluff, where are you? Sam Bluff?
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Somebody go get the Smith Fella's downstairs? Willie Peacock? Peacock?
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[[inaudible]] Go ahead, Jill. [[Song begins]]
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Singers: Ain't gonna let nobody turn me round, turn me round, lord, turn me round Ain't gonna let nobody turn me round,
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Gonna keep on walking, yeah, keep on talking, yeah, marching on to freedom land!
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Ain't gonna let...
unknown speaker 1: [[Crosstalk]] segregation...
Singers: Lord turn me round, oh no, oh no (Audience: Turn me round, turn me round) Ain't gonna let segregation, turn me round,
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Keep on a-walkin', yeah, keep on a-talkin', yeah marching on to freedom land!
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Ain't gonna let the administration turn me around round
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oh no, oh no (Audience: turn me round)
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Ain't gonna let the administration turn me around round, I'm gonna keep on a-walkin', yeah, keep on a-talkin', yeah marching on to freedom land!
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unknown speaker 1: Ain't gonna let nobody lordy,
Singers: turn me round, oh no, oh no (Audience: Turn me round, turn me round)
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Singers: Ain't gonna let nobody turn me round, Gonna keep on a-walkin', yeah, keep on a-talkin', yeah marching on to freedom land!
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unknown speaker 1: Ain't gonna let no citizen's council, lordy
Singers: turn me round, turn me round, turn me round, Ain't gonna let no Citizen's Council lordy turn me round, Gonna keep on a-walkin', yeah, keep on a-talkin', yeah marching on to freedom land!
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I'm on my way to freedom land,
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I'm on my way to freedom land!
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I'm on my way to freedom land, I'm on my way, thank God, I'm on my way,
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If you don't go, don't depend on me,
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If you don't go, don't depend on me,
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If you don't go, don't depend on me, I'm on my way, thank God, I'm on my way [[clapping louder]]
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If you don't go, let your children go,
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If you don't go, let your children go,
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If you don't go, let your children go,
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I'm on my way, thank God, I'm on my way,
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I'm on my way, and I won't turn back,
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I'm on my way, and I won't turn back
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I'm on my way, and I won't turn back, I'm on way, thank God I'm on my way
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I'm on my way to freedom land, I'm on my way to freedom land
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I'm on my way to freedom land, I'm on my way, thank God, I'm on my way
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we are soldiers in the army
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we gotta fight oh lord we have to fight
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we got to hold all of the freedom [[banner?]], we gotta hold it all until we die
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we are soldiers in the army
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we gotta fight, oh
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yeah we gotta hold all of the freedom [[banner?]] we gotta hold it all until we die
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My mother was a soldier
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She gotta her hands on the [[?]] blood
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one day she got old she couldn't fight anymore she said i'll stand here [[?]]
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yeah we are soldiers in the army
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we gotta fight
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yeah we gotta hold all of the freedom [[?]] we gotta hold it all until we die
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and then I'm a soldier
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I got my hands on the freedom flag
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one day I'll get old I'm not gonna fight anymore, I'll just thank Him [[?]]
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Yeah, we are soldiers in the army
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we gotta fight, oh
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yeah we gotta hold all of the freedom [[banner?]] we gotta hold it all until we die
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we are soldiers in the army
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we gotta fight, oh
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we gotta hold all of the freedom [[banner?]] we gotta hold it all until we die
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[[applause]]
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Various audience members: [[yelling]] Freedom train [00:21:41
Samuel Block: There are only three words you have to remember-
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unidentified speaker:
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All the people in the back come up, there are some seats up here, this is Sam Block from Greenwood Mississippi. [[?]] Block. [[applause]]
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Samuel Block: Uh there are only 3 words you have to remember and its "freedom", "coming" and [[?]] and the other 5 are "get onboard children, get onboard". Well 3 and 5 [[?]] don't you worry about [[?]]
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So, everybody, all you have to do is freedom, freedom, freedom, well you'll catch on
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Can you hear me in the back?
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Audience: No!
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Well, you'll hear me now
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Till that Freedom train, a-coming coming coming, Till that Freedom train, Lord a-coming coming coming,
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Till that Freedom train, Lord a-coming Let's get on board, get on board
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Ok, we're all here together and we're saying that the freedom train is coming, now the reason why we said that -
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[[audience conversations overlap]]
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Samuel Block: [[and there is because we believe?]] this we know that we're gonna make the freedom train
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[[audience cheers]]
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[[and there is?]] because we've said this, we're gonna need someone to engineer that's gonna be driving the engine of this train.
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We're here to tell the world that the freedom train is coming
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Although there may be be some doubt in somebody's mind about the freedom train
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They said now the freedom train is coming say, uh, I wanna know a little bit more about the train, say what kind of train is this?
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You said it is a freedom train I wanna know what is the train carrying. Well see, the train is carrying nothing but freedom,
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so you don't have to worry about what the freedom train is carrying. Well a lot of people worry say "well will there be any Governor Wallace on this train?"
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"Will there be any Governor Barnetts on this train?" Well no, there will be no segregation on this train!
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This train is known as the freedom train, the freedom train is coming, and it's carrying nothing but freedom!
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:33.000
So we gonna tell Washington that the freedom train is coming, and it's carrying nothing but freedom! Now we want you to tell [[em? them?]] that!
00:24:33.000 --> 00:25:07.000
It'll be carrying nothing but freedom, freedom, freedom.
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:16.000
Let's get onboard, get onboard.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:23.000
Well you know a lot of people worry, they say "now if the freedom train is coming and you say it's carrying nothing but freedom,
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:26.000
say, I wanna know a just little bit more about the train.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:32.000
Say, I know I haven't done what I should have done a long time ago for the cause of freedom
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:37.000
but let me tell you. I don't wanna be left when everybody else going on this train.
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.000
I wanna know if there's gonna be any room for my little son.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.000
Is there gonna be any room for my little daughter that wanna go on this freedom train?
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000
Will there be any room for my husband?
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.000
See, I know he worked on the plantation real hard all his life.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.000
I know that he hasn't gone up to register vote as he should've done.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:59.000
But lemme tell you. Say I wanna go on the train I wanna carry my whole family.
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.000
Say, I know that, you know, since all the freedom fighters have come together
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.000
and they're fighting for the cause of freedom, say I don't think
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.000
there would be any room for me on this train. But this is the reason
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.000
why I'm coming to ask you, will there be any room for us on this train?"
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.000
Well, yeah, you don't have to worry. We know that you haven't done what you should have done.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:23.000
You don't have to worry. You don't have to worry about the train that's coming by the thousand.
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.000
So don't you worry about a thing. If you haven't done anything just come up.
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.000
Cause the train is coming by the thousand.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:27:02.000
It'll be coming by the thousand, thousand, thousand.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Let's get onboard, oh, get on board.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.220
You know. down in Mississippi, you know
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:17.000
[[singing in background; Freedom train]]
Samuel Block: -that the freedom train is coming.
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:26.000
You know the plantation owners in Mississippi are so bad and so mean until they just don't want Negros in Mississippi to become registered voters.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:31.000
And this is why we've been fighting so hard to try to gain the right to vote.
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Now they tell their workers on the plantation, now if you go out there and mess with those [[?]] outside agitators for carrying on, said we going to carry you, and get Big Smitty - well Stupid Smitty is what we call him, he's the sheriff you know,
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:53.000
he arrested a federal official when he showed him his credentials in Mississippi, this is the sheriff this is why we call him Stupid Smitty.
00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:09.000
So, you know, listen now we're gonna take that little 12 dollars a week from you that you make on the plantation, so now you won't have no food, and you're kids are not gonna have no food either, and we're gonna make Stupid Smitty carry you up there and throw you in jail and lock you up, and I'm not gonna get you out.
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:23.000
But we told them that since we been duped and been stolen and been talked about for so long now, and been using jail to scare Negros you know we ain't scared of your jails no more, because we want our freedom, now you can do what you want,
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:33.000
you know, but we ain't scared of your jails, because we want our freedom. So in Mississippi we sang this song to 'em, you know. We ain't scared of your jails because we want our freedom. So let's try.
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:45.000
[[Song begins]] I ain't scared of your jails, 'cause I want my, I want my, I want my I ain't scared of your jails, 'cause I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:59.000
I ain't scared of penitentiary, 'cause I want my, oh I ain't scared of penitentiary, 'cause I want my, Lord I want me freedom now
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:12.000
I'm gonna be arrested Lordy, 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I want my I'm gonna be arrested Lordy, 'cause I want my, I want my freedom now
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:25.000
I'll never turn back, 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, oh I'll never turn back, because I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:38.000
I'll be telling everybody that I want my, that I want my, oh I'll be telling everybody that I want my, that I want my freedom now
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:52.000
Gonna keep on fighting 'till I get my, Lord I get my, oh Gonna keep on fighting 'till I get my, Lord I get my freedom now
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:05.000
I ain't scared of your dogs 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I want my I ain't scared of your dogs 'cause I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:18.000
I ain't scared of your sticks 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I want my I ain't scared of your sticks 'cause I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:32.000
You can throw me in jail but I want my, Lord I want my, oh You can throw me in jail but I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:46.000
I'm gonna tell my friends that I want my, that I want my, oh I'm gonna tell my friends that I want my, that I want my freedom now
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:58.000
You can talk about me, but I want my, Lord I want my, Lord you can talk about me, but I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:12.000
I don't mind dying 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I want my I don't mind dying 'cause I want my, I want freedom now
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Oh I'd tell my friends that I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I want my I'd tell my friends that I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:46.000
I ain't scared of your jails, 'cause I want my, Lord I want my, Lord I ain't scared of your jails, 'cause I want my, Lord I want my freedom now
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:51.000
[[Song ends]] [[Applause]]
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.130
Well since we've said we that we aint scared of your jails we want our-
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:17.000
[[SPEAKER name="Speaker 1"]] Use something to get it. And the best way that we know to tell them is to "come on and wade in the water with us."
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:26.000
It doesn't mean that you have to get out and go, y'know, get in a ditch of water, y'know, and wade up and down there and get wet, saying that you hold freedom.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:37.000
But it means you have to get in the struggle, in the battle, and fight with us. And this is the water that we're wading in, down in the South, in the hardcore areas of Mississippi.
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:48.000
So, the song goes something like this.
[SILENCE]
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Wade in the water,
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:57.000
wade in the water children,
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:06.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:11.000
Come on and wade in the water, my lordy
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:15.000
wade in the water, children,
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:21.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.000
You can talk about Peter,
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.000
talk about Paul,
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:38.000
Well, it ain't but the one God that made us all.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.000
My lordy, wade in the water,
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:50.000
my lordy, wade in the water, children,
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Well, the gin river, chill and cold,
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:07.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:11.000
Well, it chills the body, but not the soul.
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:16.000
God's gonna trouble the water, my lordy.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.000
Wade in the water,
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.000
come on and wade in the water, children,
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:29.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:33.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:38.000
Well if you don't believe that I've been to Hell,
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:41.000
God's gonna trouble the water,
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:46.000
Just follow me down to the county jail.
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.000
Why don't you wade in the water,
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.000
Why don't you wade in the water, children,
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Wade in the water, my lordy,
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:11.000
You can hinder me here, you can hinder me there,
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:15.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.000
But you can't hinder me on my knees in prayer.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:28.000
Why don't you wade in the water,
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:33.000
Why don't you wade in the water, children,
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.000
Wade in the water, my lordy,
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.000
Well, the enemy is great, but my captain's strong,
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:53.000
I'm fightin' for freedom, and it won't be long.
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:58.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.000
Why don't you wade in the water,
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:06.000
why don't you wade in the water, children,
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:11.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.000
God's gonna trouble the water, my lordy.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.000
Wade in the water,
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.000
why don't you wade in the water, children,
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.000
wade in the water, my lordy,
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.000
God's gonna trouble the water, my lordy.
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:35.000
God's gonna trouble the water, my lordy.
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:40.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.000
God's gonna trouble the water.
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:50.390
[[applause]]
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:00.000
[Unknown Speaker 1] Ok,
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:09.000
the next speaker, will be Mr. James Baldwin, who will be introduced to you by our executive
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:13.000
executive secretary Mr. James Foreman.
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:21.000
But, previous to this I would like to make a few announcements, which, have been handed to me.
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:27.000
Number one: those, who, at this time, do not have housing,
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:32.000
can go downstairs immediately after Mr. Baldwin speaks,
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.000
to secure housing.
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.000
And number two:
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:45.000
that, there is, a conference folder, belonging to Joyce Latina, which she has lost
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:53.000
and which contains something valuable in it, and would you please be honest, as we all know you are, and return them.
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:59.000
Also, I would like, for each and every one of us, to look at the
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:10.000
sheets, in the, folders, concerning the workshops, and let us see where our workshop is scheduled,
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.000
so that after dinner we can go directly to the workshops.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:26.000
Without, any other comment I would, like to, have, Mr. Foreman introduce Mr. Baldwin.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:32.000
James Forman: This has fallen in my lap, because primarily, Baldwin was down in Selma, Alabama, when we had a very intensive voting campaign.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.000
Chico [Nettbit?] is here. And I would like for Chico to stand, because he was beaten by the cops and
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:41.000
Mr. Baldwin was looking on at that particular time.
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:45.000
Also, [Aibree?] Williams, is he here?
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.000
Cause, in the midds of an intensive voting registration campaign,
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:53.000
in the face of two FBI, four FBI agents, two Justice Department officials,
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.000
these people were beaten by Sheriff County,
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.000
rather, the County of Dallas, Dallas County Sheriff Jim Clark.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.000
Chico? And where's [Aibree?] Williams? Is he here?
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:10.000
I think it's important that we understand some of the difficulties that all the workers are going through.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:10.940
Baldwin was in Selma on-
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:25.000
James Forman: But I think its important that you understand that he has made a commitment to the negro struggle and that he is willing to go wherever possible whenever he can,
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:38.000
to aid us to observe and to write about the experiences. I think we saw him, we heard him speaking here at Howard about a month ago where he was recalling some of the experiences that he had in Selma, Alabama.
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:53.000
This is very important, that a man with the type of audience that he has involves himself completely in the struggle because it's not our struggle its his struggle too and when he gets through talking I know we will all feel it's our struggle - James Baldwin.
00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:18.000
[[applause]]
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:23.000
James Baldwin: Thank you very much, can you all hear me in the back?
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:37.000
Alright, I hardly know what I'm going to talk about but I'll say from the beginning that what I would really like to do
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:46.000
is explore some of the things which are on my mind, and then we can explore some of the things that are on your mind.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:55.000
So that if you'll allow me I won't try to make a speech but I'll try to get a discussion started.
00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:12.000
I really don't like making speeches. And in this case I think that perhaps we can learn a great deal from each other because I am here really, I must say - and I mean this - to learn what I can from you.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:18.390
I must say that one thing struck me while I was sitting
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.000
James Baldwin: I don't know if I can make this clear.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:38.000
But I was born in a church and spent most of my life, being dragged, like a dishrag through various pulpits.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:43.000
and singing in frnt of areas, church audiences because my father liked that kind of thing.
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:52.000
And I left when I was 17 and, uhm, I haven't been back to church since.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.000
But, as I got older and I began to,
00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:04.000
to deal with my own life in a way which I couldn't ? as a child or as an adolescent.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:09.000
I began to try to find out, as everybody does have to at some point, find out,
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.000
who he is, and what he wants and where he really comes from
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:17.000
and what really nourishes him, what really ? him
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.000
how he was put together and now that he is put together this way
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.000
what is he going to do with it
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.000
Then I began to realize that,
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.000
in all those years,
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:34.000
that I spent cursing out the organist and pianist and wishing to God the minister would stop talking.
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:44.000
All those terrible Sundays, taught me something which I could not have learned in any other way,
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.000
And what it taught me is almost impossible to say,
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.000
but, heard it, just a few minutes ago and you did too.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
When these people, when these children are singing
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.000
When I say children or I say kids, by the way, I don't mean it patronizingly,at all
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.000
I mean, I'm just a little older than you, that's all.
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:13.000
Now, it occurs to me that there's something in this which is, of great value, to this entire country.
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:18.000
For me, it's something of a miracle and I think I can use that word.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:23.000
That the songs which we created in privacy, and in anguish and in darkness.
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:29.000
by black, pagans, captive on these shores.
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.000
The music they evolved, created.
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:38.000
Who sustain themselves in the most terrible, terrible oppression that has ever been,
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:42.000
that have ever happened, in any case, in the Western world.
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.000
That these songs have somehow come down
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:50.000
all these bloodstained ages and now metaphosed, metaphosed
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:55.000
become, changed into a vehicle, to liberate,
00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:00.080
not only, the Negro of this country, but all the people in
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:19.000
James Baldwin: There is tremendous kind of vitality, a tremendous kind of virility, a tremendous kind of dignity and elegance coming all the way, from the auction block, down to 1963.
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:26.000
There is something stunning about the fact that this virility, this vitality, this elegance and this dignity
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:37.000
which has been so long maligned, denied and spat upon by this entire country has now become this country's only hope.
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.000
During all these generations,
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.000
when we were singing and dancing down on the levee,
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:51.000
when we were happy, as Mr Charlie put it, in our place,
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:59.000
and singing 'Steal away to Jesus', and eating all those greens, and doing all that funky dancing,
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:03.000
white people actively cultivated
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.000
in themselves, the expensive delusion,
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:17.000
that my songs, my greens and my dances
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:23.000
and the sorrow and the beauty and the force,
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.000
that they heard in these songs
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.000
they cultivated in themselves the delusion that these,
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:44.000
things apply to something which they called nigger, but do not apply to man, and, in any case, did not apply to them.
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:51.000
That what happened to me, in my slave quarters, and later in my relevated slave quarters,
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:59.000
and later in my relevated slave quarters in the North,
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:09.000
that all of these things, which I endured, was happening to someone else.
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.000
and the danger in which I stood,
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:15.000
the danger in which my children stood,
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:25.000
the destruction we encountered, every day and every hour of every day, for generation upon generation,
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.650
this was happened to colored people.
00:46:33.000 --> 00:48:50.560
Over there, but it was not happening to Mr. Charlie, it couldn't happen to Mr. Charlie. In a way My presence in the country ensured forever that this was the way it was planned. The spiritual and social ease of all white people because my presence here was designed to pay their dues. For them I suffered and therefore you call it a democratic country. I was guilty and therefore you could be innocent. I was endlessly endangered and therefore you were safe. Now this dilution did terrible things of course to my forefathers and to me and to my contemporaries. And it is doing terrible things as we stand here, as we sit here. To our children, to my children to my nieces and my nephews. But in all the time that I have had to deal consciously with this country and try to be articulate to myself about my own experience. And in watching as we have had to watch in these last sad years. So many children facing so many sheriffs, so many hoses and so many dogs. When I watch for example chiko and selma and avery cross the street with those savages to cross the line, to feed the people against the sheriffs orders. And we watched the sheriff earlier and looked into his eyes and I realized, I think all of us realized that the man we were facing, with his helmet and his ***** and his nightstick and his gun was terrifying. It was for that reason because he was terrifying.
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:58.008
James Baldwin: No other recourse but to strike.
