Folklife Festival Narrative Session: Chico Garcia - Muralist and Graffiti Artist part 2

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Chico Garcia: Cuz you know it's been now, like, two months, this guy hasn't--I haven't--I've been trying to reach him. And I got, that's my best work in that portfolio, it's my latest.

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Interviewer: Oh really, and all the European stuff.

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Chico Garcia: Yea, 'cuz he tells me. Yea, cuz all my European stuff and this is like my life, and this guy, and uh, man you don't know, they're going crazy all these days. It's like my life there, you know, I got old portfolios, but I--you know, those stuff it's not what interests me no more.

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Interviewer: Mmhm.
Chico Garcia: So this, uh, book, this new portfolio. I mean, you know, I put so much money into it.

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Interviewer: Mmhm.
Chico Garcia: And this guy says, "No, Chico man, you know I want to make a book about you. You know, I went and talked to some businesses" blah blah blah blah blah. You know, he was talking me up like literally everybody always does.

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Chico Garcia: "Oh man I'm gonna get you marketable" and blah blah blah blah blah, and you know, "I'm working for a big company now, can I borrow your portfolio?" "I was so nice to you, my man, you know, I hope can give it back. Do you need to telephone them to make sure-"

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Chico Garcia: "I don't know who you are but we started in the--[stutters] So, I trusted the guy says he owns an Exxon gas station over by Brooklyn, at 69th Street?"

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Interviewer: Mmhm.

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Chico Garcia: Now he sold the gas station, and the guy is gone.

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Interviewer: Okay. Oh, you can't find him.

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Chico Garcia: [sigh] that's just, that's just driving me crazy. So I told the owner of the place that second owner is never there either. So I call the young girl that works there, cuz they have a little, uh, whatchama call-it, a little sandwich thing there, uhm.

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Chico Garcia: He decided to play so I said, "listen when the boss, when George is coming down I need my portfolio." "Ah, he's never gonna show up, he never shows up around here." she goes, like.

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Interviewer: Could she give you, like, his phone number or something?

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Chico Garcia: Nah, she not gonna give that out. Maybe she have it, but she wouldn't give it to me. So uh, I'm pretty upset you know because, I really need that portfolio god damn. You know, I guess I, only God knows why things like that happen. [laughs]

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Interviewer: Do you have like, uh, do you have like photos, can you make new photos for the uhm--

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Chico Garcia: No.

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Interviewer: --to add into it? Oh shit. That's what you have?

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Chico Garcia: No. I had a lot of, had a lot of magazines, cut up in there, and everything.

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Interviewer: Mmhm.

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Chico Garcia: I blew up a lot of those pictures but, uh, to find them in my house now, forget about it.

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Interviewer: [laughs]

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Chico Garcia: You know I probably threw them out, you know you throw something little out like that.

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Interviewer: Mmhm.

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Chico Garcia: Not gonna look through stuff like that. You know, I uh, maybe I placed them somewhere, but I have closets full of boxes and I'm like, "I don't think they're gonna go in there."

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Interviewer: [laughs]

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Chico Garcia: So much, you know you gotta go right through the closet and I want to go through it I just don't have the time for that right now.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm. That's way too bad though, that your portfolio, that--hopefully--

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Chico Garcia: Hopefully I should get it, maybe not right now, not anytime soon but I am going to try, you know, keep fighting for it until I get it.

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Interviewer: Well the places like in Germany, Germany is really big I guess and it was interesting the guys in Germany are in the test crew right now working there.

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Interviewer: Why do you think, in Europe they love, they love coming to the Bronx and like seeing that big authentic hip hop culture and why--what do you think they like about it over in Germany, they love, like, seeing the murals?--

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Chico Garcia: Well I went over there to Germany and I went to find out, the same question you are asking me I wanted to, like, [laughs] find out, and uh, I realized Germany do not open up to people, the people there do not open up. They're not friendly.

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Interviewer: Really?

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Chico Garcia: You know I--because I met a girl there who picked me up in the airport and next thing you know we're in a car and she is taking me to the location, to the apartment where I'm going to be staying. And, you know usually Germans are very quiet people, like, they don't open up to nobody. Anybody will tell you that.

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Chico Garcia: So, me I'm like "Wow," you know, you know, you know Herman--his name--that hired me for this job from the expo in 2000, uh, sent this beautiful girl to pick me up. So I am like, "wow sweetheart you very attractive," you know. She going to be the driver, I was scared--

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Interviewer: [[Laughter]]

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Chico Garcia: They don't open up to nobody. I'm Puerto-Rican, you know, I gotta tell you how it is, That's how [inaudible] You know what I'm saying?. I love girls that are like, oh my god, she's like "Really?" and then she started flirting, you know, asking me where I'm from. "Oh you know New Yorkers are like that, the way you are, very friendly."

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Chico Garcia: I said "Oh, am I friendly now? Oh? Hold on a second!" So anyway, we started to talk, we got involved for about a month and a half, I mean after the fourth day actually.

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Interviewer: [[Laughter]]

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Chico Garcia: I'm pretty fast. I don't know what happened there. So, uh, and then she started to talk to me and she told me "the guys in Germany, let me tell you one thing, they are--they don't open up, they are so rude, they--they--they think they're all that," You know, I'm like, "Really?"

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Chico Garcia: She says, "I don't know, you're different, you're friendly, you're fun to be with," And I said "serious?" so it was like it was a contact. I guess--

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Interviewer: So I wonder if they kind of look, they see this, like, passionate life and music and lifestyle, they're kind of like drawn to that?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah, and also in the, in the television over there, they have like this New York scene, like, people having fun, and drinking and people on motorcycles. They don't see that in Germany so they are like "oh, we gotta go to New York."

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Chico Garcia: So when they go to the Bronx they probably see that image already on the television over there. So when they go to the Bronx they see rappers and all that, all these black guys rapping and over there--they are all white over there but these black guys rapping on the TV, they're going to really come to New York, you know, and that is where everything started. So, it's like--

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Interviewer: Well--I guess all over Europe, I guess it's because it's part of what--what music's popular right now.

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Chico Garcia: [[Cross-talk]] Yeah, the same thing--
Interviewer: [[Cross-talk]] You've got pop culture, and hip hop culture, and you hear about music--

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Chico Garcia: Yeah, the same thing with Japan. Japan, well in Japan, it's the same thing. All over the TV, it's just Black rappers and Spanish rap.

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Interviewer: Really?
Chico Garcia: Yeah, and--and of course, if you've noticed, a lot of Japanese girls, they go out with Black guys. They look for the image, and that--

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Interviewer: I guess too--[stutters] interesting in Japan they really love, like, Latin music too.

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Chico Garcia: Yeah, Latin music too. They see that over there.

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Interviewer: Mhmm.

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Chico Garcia: They see the [stuttering] rapping, the Spanish salsa. They see--they want something different from their culture.

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Interviewer: Yeah.

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Chico Garcia: So what better than what we offer, you know? We have Bronx there, we have Latin singers, and--and--we are I think more active in the whole field.

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Interviewer: Do you think there's something about--like you said they're all, like all white, like in Germany. Do you think there's something--and probably like, you know, a lot of hip hop, you know, break dancing, graffiti, the music, all kind of grew out of, like, kids who had nothing, who were poor, and oppressed--

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Chico Garcia: True.

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{SPEAKER Name="Interviewer"} And now you have people like, you know, Europeans, they think that's cool, like they want to come over, and you know they're all white, and they're, you know, kind of wanting to appropriate and (stutters) do it, does that--does that bother you? Or do you think that like--it's easy for them to come and do it but you had to live through all the other--

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Chico Garcia: Yeah, that is true, and it kinda bothers me, just like I said, and it's just like I said, look, I've been going around my neighborhood, I mean, they're changing it, that's number one. I mean, it looks good.

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Chico Garcia: But some of these people come over and they buy or they fix a building and they take my work, and they get rid of it. Then they put a bar in that same area, and then--but who's in the area? We have our own bars, our own little clubs, Latin people, the cops will be there every day.

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{SPEAKER name="Chico Garcia"] Arresting us, telling us to leave, closing the place down.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm. {SPEAKER name="Chico Garcia"] Now if you go down to my neighborhood you have all these bars, these people making a lot of noise, drinking, breaking bottles, and where are the cops? Because they're white. They're not for nothing, and discrimination still goes on.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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{SPEAKER name="Chico Garcia"] And I'm pissed off because I work in my neighborhood, if you looked at those bars you won't see anyone Hispanic in there! Only white guys drinking a beer, no black guys. All you see is yuppies in my neighborhood. And I'm sorry--

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Interviewer: I went to a bar like right over by Tompkins Square Park one time, and um, it was weird. Yeah, it was definitely--

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Chico Garcia: You don't see--I mean, relating Hispanics with blacks, and white people, it should be like--there's neighborhoods like that, but no. I mean, not for nothing, I don't have anything against white people, but uh--you know, or the one--the one to take away, or, you know, I don't understand why they're not relating with everybody else.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: 'Cause, I mean, I used to work at Seabar, and it was like, Spanish, whites, mixed.

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: That's beautiful. Meanwhile these bars, if you're Hispanic they look at you up and down, like, they don't even want to talk to you, the people in there, 'cause they're all completely white.

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Chico Garcia: They're like, yuppies, from college, or where the hell they come from, I mean they all want great, [stuttering], look at this guy over here, what's he doing here. It looks like I don't even belong here. Right when you're talking crap--

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: And it's like, you can feel it, so you gotta leave. They don't want you to be there. I don't understand--and that's why the neighborhood is changing. So, in our world, I feel the same way--I see that happening--I see these people trying to take away what we've got, and they enjoy it, I'm sure they do, but if they're loving it--that's why I'll never want to teach them anything.

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Chico Garcia: Because if they're loving the art, then we're taking away from us, as well as they're taking away the neighborhood.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: The same way, they're doing it very slowly, and they're taking it from us. And they're doing it already! If you know that the buses--we started with these train things on the buses--on the trains--now you see buses with meal rows and everything! They doing it on the computer.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: Where did the idea came from? From us. They take everything that you've got, the ideas, the--

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Interviewer: But you got arrested when you did it, and now, like, it's like a legal thing--

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Chico Garvia: Well, uh, well, uh, I got arrested when I did it, but now I wish I could do a whole bus. Now they do the computers, they put stickers on the whole bus, but it's a whole bus, painted.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: If you know that you know New York's all over that, but that started from our subway, the idea started from us. 'Cause we, we used a--we're the only ones that have painting all over the cars, like, top to bottom, and now they're doing it.

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Chico Garcia: So, uh, I don't understand, it's like, they take it instead of putting us to do this type of jobs. They want to do it, they want to market it, they want to have the--all the props and all the credit and--

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Interviewer: Make the money off of it.

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{SPEAKER name-"Chico Garcia"} And make the money off of it! So that's why the Europeans, sometimes, they call us, to go down to there, to Germany or London to do paintings so they can see the next, you know, the future. You know what I'm saying? [[laughing]]

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Interviewer: Mmmhmm. Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: That's the future of the 2000s, that's the movie.

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Interviewer: Well, I just have one more question, you've been involved in the scene for a long time--

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Chico Garcia: Oh yeah.

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Interviewer: There was a--a couple of women involved. Lady Pink's been around for a long--for a while, hasn't she? Isn't she been--

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{SPEAKER name-"Chico Garcia"} Lady Pink? Yeah.

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Interviewer: But--do you see more women involved now?

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Chico Garcia: Uhh, not really.

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Interviewer: Still not that many? Still basically a male thing?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah. It's a male thing. I mean, there is--there is girls, some girls, that do paint things, and--and--but then I really, really love, because they're more like, uh, they like to stay clean, you know? Female like to always dress clean, and they don't want to get dirty too much.

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Interviewer: Well I understand, like, how it started, why there wouldn't be too many girls, and you figured you had to go to the trainyard, it was, you know, dangerous--

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Chico Garcia: There was gangs, and everything.

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Interviewer: You know, so you see, but now, it's--it's--lost some of that danger. You can do murals. You know, you can do murals, you can do store gates and stuff, but you still--you still just don't see--

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Chico Garcia: Well, I would love to work with girls, I think a lot of these girls have got ideas, but, um, I used to--[stutters]--I think a lot of these girls don't want to do it because the nails get painted up, and you know, they break their nails, and they've got a few guys that are looking at their butt as they're painting, and stuff like that, I--you know, a lot of girls get offensive.

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: 'Cause I have a couple of girls who worked for me, forget it I have a crowd of guys "ooh, look at her, oh!" And I had a cousin working for me and, she was always--she had to wear baggy pants, because if she would wear these tights pants, forget about it.

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: She had a whole crowd staring.

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: So, it's like, they never saw a girl on a ladder, you know, these guys. You know how guys are, man. You know, even if they're not looking at you, they're really looking at you. [laughing]

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Interviewer: Uh-huh.

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Chico Garcia: It was something. Once they're out there painting it, like--well that's nice! Oh yeah that's very nice! Oh that's nice, oh yeah.

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Interviewer: So, even when you're painting, you always get a crowd of people watching you, usually?

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Chico Garcia: Oh yeah. I like--I'm an entertainer. I like to entertain.

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Interviewer: But that's common--if there's any art, if there's an artist, people always just--the neighbors--people will stop by, see what's going on, see what you're drawing. Is that common? You get that a ton?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah. Yeah. Always--I always get people that ask me questions, and, and--"Chico, how long have you been doing this for you know-- your stuff looks good--" but, uh, that's great, blah blah blah blah blah. So that always happens. That was nice.

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Chico Garcia: I always get a crowd, even tourists, or even strangers that are walking by, they stop, and take pictures. Like, yesterday I was just doing a painting obviously, and a whole party of people started taking pictures and everything, so.

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Chico Garcia: I felt good about that. 'Cause there's people that still like my work, and I've been in the community for so long, and, they probably thought they haven't seen me working out there for about two or three years so they probably thought Chico left.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: But they saw me yesterday, a lot of people were pretty happy to see me out there.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: 'Cause I'm doing some work now by, uh, Westchester, you know, I'm doing backdrops for theaters. So I'm doing a lot of different things--

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Interviewer: In Westchester County?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah.

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Interviewer: Oh really?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah. I'm doing different things. So right now, Ratner's, uh, the restaurant has been there for years, and they, uh, they're remodeling the whole place, so I want to dress up the whole inside too.

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Interviewer: Oh really?

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Chico Garcia: Yeah. Those people, they've been around for a hundred years.

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Interviewer: [laughing]

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Chico Garcia: So they--also the parking lot, they're gonna redo the whole parking lot, and I have--you know I've done that before.

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Interviewer: Mmhmm.

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Chico Garcia: So, uh, I got a lot of pretty--pretty--good gigs right now.

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Interviewer: Oh whoa. Yeah, then you're going to be busy.

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Chico Garcia: I'm just looking forward to all that. Yeah. [laughs] Also to go to Washington, we'll be going tomorrow.

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Interviewer: Okay. [laughs] Well, okay, I'm--thank you! I think--I think that's all.

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Speaker 1: business but it's a fun business so

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Speaker 2: Is there a difference between the outdoor chess scene and the parks here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah some of the parks are run by people and that can be very unpleasant, I have not been there so I cant say from experience but I know that people have come here and won't play at the park.

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah for one its a gambling scene in some of the places and it's run by somebody so you can't just sit down at a table because people have the table and that's not true everywhere because I know that if you go to Tomkins Square Park, you can sit down at a table and play a game of chess.

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Speaker 2: hmmm.

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Speaker 1: (continues) But, the scene in the park is different because I think um human nature requires somebody there to keep it from getting to the lowest common denominator, somebody to say "this is not how you behave, lets make it pleasant for everybody".

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Speaker 1: Let's not drop to that level. And that's why we get a lot of people who... and at the same time, not to make it, you know, this disciplinary place. You know, it's very free and you can do what you want. But... there is sort of a blurred line that can be crossed... and then gently go over into the other side.

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Speaker 1: It's funny Tommy[?] called the other day and wanted to find out, we have a policy here of um, for charging for profanities. If people curse, they get charged a dollar twenty-five or something each one.

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Speaker 2: …such a gentleman sport.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.. yeah you'd think. So, uh, .. they were talking about GW Bush the other day, about that New York Times reporter, called to ask if you know, "what's the scene? what's the thing about the cursing?" And our thing was, make it a pleasant place to play and cursing is I dont have anything really against it but it densed denovative place to that lowest denominator and quickly becomes very unpleasant.

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Speaker 2: yeah. People who do see it as a game or play start to take things personally because there like idiot and then like yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And its not nice for anybody and there's couples who come in here and there's people on first dates who have been here. There's a couple who went on a date here, first date chess shop and then he proposed to her and they got married.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: He propopsed to her In the chess shop
Speaker 2: Oh really?

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Speaker 1: across the table. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow

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Speaker 1: And the funniest thing is I didnt here about it
Speaker 2: *laughing*

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Speaker 1: at the time ah afterwards because um it turns out the couple is a friend of um my wife's cousin.

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They didn't know anything about... they didn't know me. They didn't.. they just came because it was a chess shop.

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Speaker 2: Oh really? so random. Yeah small world.

00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:03.000
Speaker 1: Yeah this was before I ,it was a while... it was a few years ago. So,

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.000
Speaker 2: Nice.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.000
Speaker 1: I thought that was really nice. And they're still together and I think they still come to play.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.000
Speaker 2: *laughing*

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:35.000
Speaker 1: I just haven't met them yet. But um otherwise I just wanted to add that Ruth and George started this. And Ruth and George were the heart and soul of chess in today the West Villiage in New York City. There well known in the chess community and um you know Ruth died this past march

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:37.000
Speaker 2: Hmm.

00:39:37.000 --> 00:40:01.000
Speaker 1: and this was a place where they took care of their customers their friends and made a really nice environment and when people were out of money. They would come visit. they would get here and pay. For over 20 years, Doesn't pay a cent. . You know, he comes and helps. He's nice and he's a really good chess player, he doesn't really have an income,

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:23.000
Speaker 2: hmm.
Speaker 1: and there's plenty of people like that. You know, it's uh it's always been just this fantastic place cause of that, because of them. And I'm just hoping that I can - I don't want to change much, I want to carry it on, you know and see, make it into the new generation.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Do you have - are there a lot of you? Cousins?

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:46.000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's only a few of us but my brother works here too on occasion. He's an artist and he also lives, we live in the same building across town. So he's worked here all these years as well, but you know he's an artist and he doesn't want to spend his time in here at all. So he'll come in if it's an emergency, he'll come in at anytime and help, and but um.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:56.000
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: and yeah that's it. *laughing* yeah there's a bunch of cousins and uncles and aunties that love to come by but

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.000
Speaker 2: yea.
Speaker 1: [mumbles]

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:04.000
Speaker 2: That's a lot of work, yeah. [00:41:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of work.

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.000
Speaker 2: Thank you.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:06.000
Speaker 1: Great!

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:06.250
Speaker 2: um..

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.000
[[silence]]