Face-to-Face: Mary Todd Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln portrait

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Erin Carlson Mast: Well, thank you all for braving the weather to come out tonight.

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As Ian mentioned, my name is Erin Mast, and I am the curator and site administrator at President Lincoln's cottage.

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We did just open to the public for the first time last February, and so we celebrated our one year anniversary just in time for the Lincoln bicentennial to begin.

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And we're going to be looking today at this portrait of Mary and Abraham Lincoln, done around 1864 and painted by Pierre Morand.

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Pierre Morand is a rather interesting character, because it's sort of uncertain whether or not he and Joseph Debar are actually one and the same artist.

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Debar's work is very similar to Morand's, and through research, several sources list them as being one and the same person -- it'll say Pierre Morand AKA Joseph H. Diss Debar.

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Debar emigrated from the Alsace region of France and, um, he painted numerous pictures, actually, while he was in Washington D.C.,

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including several of Lincoln and, in fact, the only portrait of Lincoln that we have where -- that places Lincoln at the soldier's home,

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and we have a copy of that on display at our visitor's center.

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So it's the only time we see Lincoln not only at the soldier's home, but he's in a very relaxed position wearing a straw topper and a summer suit.

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The Lincolns moving to the soldier's home in the summer of '62, leaving in the fall, and then returning for the hot season in '63 and '64.

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And Mary Lincoln is actually the one who speaks most about their time at the soldier's home,

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because they moved there shortly after Willie Lincoln's death in 1862, and she writes to a friend that in their time of sorrow, quiet is very necessary to them.

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So Mary, Abraham, and their youngest son Tad spent the summers at the soldier's home, with their son Robert visiting from Harvard College.

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But in this particular portrait we have, by Pierre Morand, it shows Abraham and Lin-- uh, Abraham and Mary out for a walk in what is -- in front of what is presumably the White House,

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and it's interesting because in this particular picture, they look very at ease and happy as they walk these grounds,

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and you could see a hint of the military presence, maybe a nod to the Civil War in the background, in these two characters in military dress.

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Um, there is of course a lot of speculation about whether or not the marriage between Mary and Abraham Lincoln was a congenial one,

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whether or not it was a loving one, there is a lot of scorn that has been heaped on Mary over the years.

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We do know that, in terms of what they shared in common, they both did have a tendency towards being melancholy,

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but they also both had a love of poetry, theater, and the arts,

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so it's not surprising that Lincoln sat multiple times for the artist Morand.

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Um, we also know that they differed in many ways. Mary Lincoln was highly educated, she had over ten years of schooling. Lincoln, all told, only had one year of formal schooling.

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Um, she was fluent in French, she had a flair for drama, was an accomplished actress at her academy.

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She also came from a very well-connected family in Lexington, she had a very upper class upbringing,

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she counted Henry Clay as a family friend and she also thought that he was very influential politically,

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but also, Dolley Madison married a kinsman of Mary Lincoln, so she was very well-connected, and conversely, Abraham Lincoln was not,

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so in essence when she married him, uh, a lot of scholars will note that she was shrewd enough to notice that he had a lot of ambition,

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and that he had a lot of political promise, which had not been realized at that point once they met and married in 1842.

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So in some sense she was taking a risk, but she felt that it was not essentially risky because she both loved him and saw that he had a lot of promise.

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So when they made it to the White House in 1860, this was really a great accomplishment not only for Lincoln -- for Abraham Lincoln -- but Mary felt it was her accomplishment as well,

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because she considered herself a very close advisor of Lincoln's, and in fact was a sounding board, had followed his political career very closely,

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was known to go to his trials when he was a lawyer to watch his performance in the courtroom, and -- so this was really sort of a coup for her as well,

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and in fact, when Abraham Lincoln had been in Washington previously as a congressman,

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Mary had gone along with him with their two sons, living at a boarding house.

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So to go from living at a boarding house in Washington to returning several years later living in the White House, was really a great excitement for her.

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But of course when she got to the White House she found herself in the midst of a political firestorm.

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Those who were -- had Confederate leanings considered her a traitor,

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and those who had Union leanings often told -- often denounced her as being a spy within the White House.

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She did have family members who were fighting for the Confederacy, and when they died, she was not able to mourn them publicly.

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So she was on the -- on view of everyone and open to these criticisms, and so it was sort of, whatever she did she couldn't win in a lot of cases perhaps.

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Um, so, she was also -- when she first made it to the White House a lot of visitors commented on how shabby the appearance was at the White House,

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but then of course, once she starts fixing it up and buying new furnishings, she's criticized for lavish spending.

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And true, perhaps she overspent her budget, but Catherine Clinton, the author of the recent new biography of Mary Lincoln, Mrs. Lincoln: A Life,

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points out that the 20,000 that was appropriated for fixing up the White House is equivalent to what Congress appropriated for one mural in the Capitol Building.

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So that gives you kind of an idea of how much money she was given to fix up the White House where she was expected to hold weekly, uh,

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weekly state dinners and bi-weekly receptions, you know, this is the publi -- the people's house, and so, in some ways perhaps she felt that it was --

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that 20,000 wasn't adequate and therefore wouldn't be that bad if she overspent it. Of course, the press felt otherwise.

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In terms of their marriage, a lot of the criticism of their marriage came both in the early years and afterwards -- after Lincoln's assassination.

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Mary Lincoln did see herself as the love of Lincoln's life, and in fact, the quote here that they have on label, from Lincoln:

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"I fell in love with her and I have never fallen out"

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is something that a lot of people who were close to the Lincolns remark on, that they had a very close connection,

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that Mary Lincoln in fact, was necessary -- a necessary distraction, in some ways, to keep him balanced.

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So, perhaps when they're taking this walk, this might have been prompted by Mary Lincoln herself to get Lincoln out of the house,

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to give him maybe a break from the pressures of war and the presidency.

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This wasn't -- this wasn't just limited to things like walks and carriage rides and trips to the theater, but in fact people remarked that he wasn't eating enough,

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and that throughout his presidency he became more and more emaciated, and it was Mary's job to keep him well fed.

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So, in essence she was either distracting him too much, you know, and then being criticized when she wasn't distracting him enough,

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because he wasn't getting, you know, he wasn't, uh -- he didn't have the strength and appearance of someone who was eating well and eating right.

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And in fact we know that carries out to their experience out at the soldier's home, that when Mary Lincoln's away,

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the stories are of Lincoln having an egg and a cup of coffee for breakfast, and a plate of beans and a cup of coffee with his presidential guard at night,

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so this is a pattern that we see not only at the White House, but when they're living out at the cottage at the soldier's home as well.

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Um, Mary Lincoln is also considered a tragic figure in many ways, and this is not really surprising, she dealt with a lot of death early on in her life,

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not only with her mother dying but then with her father and her favorite grandmother dying, her son Eddie dying, followed by Willie dying,

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her husband being assassinated right in front of her, and then her youngest son Tad dying right after he turned 18.

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And as these -- I mean there were very -- there were accepted rituals, uh, Victorian rituals, for mourning and, um,

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it was not uncommon to mourn an entire year for a son's passing, but not only is she mourning the death of one of her -- of Willie, who she was very close with, um,

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but at the same time she's doing this again in the public eye and being attacked all the while in the press for everything that she's doing wrong, in essence.

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And, one of the ways she ended up coping with this loss is turning to spiritualism, which was not at all uncommon in the 19th century,

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very noted professionals including Horace Greeley, and a New York Supreme Court Justice who ended up leaving his position in order to become a spiritualist,

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so it's not as if this was some sort of rogue, you know, occult sect she was engaging in, this was something that was considered fairly common.

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That doesn't mean that it was accepted across the board, there certainly were many efforts to debunk these spiritualists, and --

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but it was a mechanism she used to cope with Willie's passing and Eddie's passing as well, and in fact on one occasion, one or more occasions,

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she did hold a seance out at the cottage at the soldier's home, and, um, her husband Abraham Lincoln

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became concerned that she was falling victim to shysters and people who were trying to take advantage of her.

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And, one of those people that he doubted was a man who labelled himself Lord Colchester, and Lincoln actually ended up asking Secretary of the Smithsonian at the time, Henry,

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to help him sort of figure out if this guy was for real or not and Noah Brooks assisted with this ambush, I guess if you want to call it --

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and they discovered that he was indeed a fraud and then Colchester went on to try to blackmail them from -- you know, to keep them from exposing him.

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So that's one of the many events that happened out of the soldier's home, that sort of point to how Mary was trying to cope with her loss,

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but also traps that she fell into along the way, because she certainly was sort of prone to flattery and, you know,

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perhaps not looking at things in the most logical way or level-headed fashion.

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While they were at the soldier's home Lincoln also, many times, was there essentially by himself because Mary would take trips up to New York or to Boston to visit her son.

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This was something that she did just even for health reasons, even though the soldier's home was considered a healthier location than the White House,

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she still oftentimes was getting away to escape the bad press perhaps, but also to spend time with her eldest son,

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and to recuperate and recover herself.

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So, a lot of times while she was in D.C., she wasn't actually spending time as the First Lady,

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while other times she was expected to be, you know, at the center of the political stage and being side by side with Lincoln.

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Um, she did find herself in danger also while she was First Lady. Certainly most of the focus was on danger and threats to Lincoln's life,

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but Mary Lincoln was not immune to those threats, and at one point when -- when she was at the soldier's home she was embarking to go to the hospital,

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she's known for her lavish spending on personal items, but she did also spend time in the hospitals caring for wounded soldiers,

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bringing them fruit, writing letters home to their family members on their behalf,

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and on one of these such excursions when she's heading out, she's involved in a horrible carriage accident.

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And at first it doesn't seem like a very major accident, she sustains a minor head wound,

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but over time this wound actually becomes infected and they start fearing for her life to the point where Abraham writes to their son Robert and says

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"Come home, mother very deeply hurt", calling him back because they're concerned for her wellbeing and whether or not she's going to make it.

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But a lot of people believe -- a lot of scholars believe -- that that carriage accident was actually an attempt on Lincoln's life,

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that it was an act of sabotage, that that was the carriage that he was supposed to take down,

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but he ended up riding down separately and Mary Lincoln was following down to the city using that carriage herself.

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So, just by being connected with Lincoln she found herself in an awful lot of danger, but still throughout this all was very pleased with the fact that they, um --

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that her husband had essentially reached the penultimate political position in the country, and they look very happy in this portrait,

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and yet in '64 if that's indeed when this was painted, Lincoln found himself in political turmoil.

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The war wasn't necessarily going well depending on what point in 1864 this is, he's also dealing with the possibility of not being re-elected.

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So it's a very troubling, very stressful time for the Lincolns, yet they do have rather contented expressions here.

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But it's in fact not until 1865 that you really hear from them that they are looking forward to spending peacetime together here in Washington,

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once the war is winding down, once Lee surrenders at Appomattox, when they really start to feel like for once they will be able to enjoy this position which,

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up until this point, has been really a series of trials for them, and it's at this point that of course Lincoln's assassinated,

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and a year after that event Mary ends up writing to a friend how dearly she loved the soldier's home and how little she supposed that one year since she would be so far removed from it.

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So, they certainly, despite the Civil War and all the uncertainty that brought,

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had their routines and their mechanisms for coping with the intense personal loss both of them felt during this time period and, um,

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in essence -- I mean --

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you can speculate on what the Lincoln's would have done with the rest of his presidency,

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and we certainly know what Mary Lincoln was looking forward to all along and what she was waiting for, but they were never able to realize that.

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The rest of Mary Lincoln's life is a rather tragic story, that we don't necessarily need to go into here.

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She never really found relief, she became estranged from her eldest son Robert, who tried to have her institutionalized.

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There's an awful lot of debate about whether or not she really was, if you want to use the word, insane,

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or whether or not it was the result of various medications she was on for different ailments.

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She did spend time abroad with her son Tad, and then later on after his passing,

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and she ultimately died in the house in Springfield where she and Abraham Lincoln were married, um, many years later of course, about 40 years after the fact.

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So, both a tragic life, but I think, a lot of times Mary Lincoln's good points are overlooked in favor of what are, really sensational stories,

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and, sometimes I almost liken it to what you get with celebrity gossip rags today,

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it seemed that the public was just hungry for any dirt that could be dug up on Mary, not only by Lincoln's detractors,

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but often by people who were supposed to be his -- on the same side, other Republicans who were maybe in opposition.

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The Chases are, you know, you can find many examples of Kate Chase and Mary Lincoln being rivals just as Secretary Chase and Abraham Lincoln were rivals during this time period.

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But I think that just as we continue to learn more and more about Lincoln, it seems that, you know, with every passing year we learn more about him,

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even though he's been written about more than just about any other president, and that was probably true during his time as well,

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Mary Lincoln was written about in the press more intensely and more extensively than any First Lady to that point,

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and she's certainly better known, I think, it's safe to say, than many First Ladies.

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Mary Lincoln is a historical figure of great importance, and we're still learning an awful lot about her, I think.

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And, while there have been waves of scholarship that have come out about her, perhaps some of the most damaging material that came out was short --

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was after Lincoln's death but before her own death, when -- at a time when people were trying to record reminiscences,

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and write down their story, and a lot of these myths or legends that perpetuate to this day were generated during that time period.

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But I do think that Mary Lincoln, for all her faults, perhaps, is someone that deserves more study,

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and that certainly does have redeeming qualities, and who can still inspire many people today.

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She was very politically ambitious before a time when that was universally acceptable for women in the United States,

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so from that perspective I think that there is certainly a lot we can learn from him.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So, with that -- um, if -- with that I guess that's, you know, really what I have to say about Mary Lincoln.

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In terms of the artist Pierre Morand, it's interesting that there's still a lot unknown about him,

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and perhaps, learning more about him we'll end up finding more about his time spent sketching the Lincolns

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since he certainly spent an awful lot of time with them that summer, because he just has so many portraits of Lincoln as well.

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So, that's one of the great things I think about history is that oftentimes there's a story that seems to have been already written,

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but we're constantly finding more and more information that just makes these stories richer and richer. Thank you.

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[[clapping]]

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{Speaker 2} What can you tell us about visiting the cottage?

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Erin Carlson Mast: Uh, about visiting the cottage? Yes, um, President Lincoln's cottage is on the campus of the armed forces' retirement home,

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if any of you know where that is, it's in north-west Washington D.C.

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And, we're open seven days a week and entrance to the cottage is by guided tour only, and there is a ticket price.

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If you'd like to find out more about it and I welcome you all to do so, our website is lincolncottage.org so you can find out more there.

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And also, for those of you who are really interested in Mary Lincoln, which I assume almost all of you are, um,

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we have author Catherine Clinton coming out in May to speak about her new biography of Mrs. Lincoln, Mrs. Lincoln: A Life,

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which was just published this year, and so I encourage you to check out our blog and our website for more information about that.

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And that's part of our speaker program called Cottage Conversations.

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{Speaker 2} Cottage?
Erin Carlson Mast: At the cottage, yes.

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{Speaker 1} I had the impression that she was rather isolated in Washington society.

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Did she have any close friends? I mean we talk about the Elizabeth Keckley, her dressmaker, but did she have any other close friends in the Cabinet or in Congress?

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Erin Carlson Mast: Well, that's a very interesting question because a lot of, um,

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as soon as she even came to Washington it seems like she was being shunned by the Washington establishment in many ways.

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And oftentimes people will comment that at some of these large receptions,

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there are only a handful of women, you know, there that are attending these.

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And perhaps more pointedly it seems that her own kinswomen, her sisters and her sisters in law aren't really visiting her here.

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Now of course those that have moved south into the Confederacy are less likely to do so,

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although interestingly enough her youngest sister -- or one of her younger sisters -- Emily Helm does come stay with them at the White House

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for awhile after her husband is killed, Confederate officer, and of course the Lincolns are absolutely chastised and torn apart for doing that because

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they're harboring a Confederate sympathizer in the White House at that time.

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So I think that in many ways yes, she was isolated and that's probably why

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she did retreat up north to visit friends there or to visit her son Robert

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because in a lot of ways she sort of didn't have a number of very close confidants.

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And a lot of people that she maybe confided in too much, um, it ended up being to her great detriment.

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But Elizabeth Keckley is certainly a figure who became a very close confidant of hers,

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but then when she writes her story later, um, about 30 years -- called '30 Years a Slave, 4 Years in the White House',

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Robert and Mary Lincoln feel rather betrayed by that tale even though Keckley's intent from her own side is not to reveal anything negative,

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but to in fact reverse some of the damage done by others who have written about her.

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And, uh, Keckley and Mary -- uh Elizabeth and Mary -- had a lot of similar ambitions and goals

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and actually Keckley, founder of the Contraband Relief Association here in Washington,

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ended up asking Mary to contribute to the cause and the Lincolns contributed -- excuse me --

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about 200 dollars which was the single largest donation the Contraband Relief Association obtained that year,

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and I think that's interesting because living at the soldier's home and making that daily commute to and from the White House for both of them brought them in direct contact with contrabands,

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and so perhaps they were, um they understood the situation that the contrabands were in and just that they were lacking basic necessities

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and that might've predisposed them to donating to that relief effort not just because Mary and Elizabeth were such close friends, but that they really, truly understood the cause.

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{Speaker 1} [[?]] the portrait of Charles Sumner, who was a good friend of both Mary and Lincoln,

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their relationship is interesting.

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Erin Carlson Mast: Yeah throughout their entire lives, and that's also someone

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--Mary did have a tendency to win people over who didn't necessarily feel a close connection with her up front,

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just as Abraham is able to charm people who meet him for the first time with preconceptions and judgements about who he is,

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and Sumner was a friend to Mary well after Lincoln's assassination as well, so.

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{Speaker 1} And may I add in Mary's defense that when she was declared insane by her son Robert's actions

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and examined by --testified against-- by doctors who had never, ever examined her,

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she smuggled a letter out to one of the first woman lawyers and got her freedom to go back to her sister's

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and she later went through the trouble of going to court and having herself declared sane again, but once branded, forget it.

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Erin Carlson Mast: Once, exactly, once branded forget it, and that actually, I mean that spins off into interesting stories in general

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about the nature of institutional care and how oftentimes women were institutionalized

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because they were considered an embarrassment to their family. And Robert tried to defend his decision

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to institutionalize his mother because he did actually feel some pushback from people who thought maybe he was doing it for his own personal political ambitions, yeah.

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Have you found anything to support the idea that she was a victim of diabetes which really wasn't well known at the time

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and well treated and then part of her personality difficulties would've been high blood sugar gone out of control?

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:51.000
Erin Carlson Mast: I have read that, but, um, like a lot of the posthumous diagnoses of Mary Lincoln,

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.000
it's really hard to sort out what is more likely than another because, I mean,

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she's also been declared schizophrenic posthumously and it's --I mean-- a lot of the evidence might support that she did have one of those conditions,

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.000
but there's really no way that we can be certain.

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{Speaker 2} Thank you very much for coming everyone, I want to remind you, you're standing in one of the very finest collections

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of Lincoln portraits and Lincoln ephemera anywhere. There are 4 or 5 genuinely singular

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In this room, so in addition to the dining you've already had, you might wanna stick around and take a look.

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Thank you very much for coming, thank you, Erin.

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Erin Carlson Mast: Thank you. It was a pleasure being here.

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{Speaker 1} Next week here in the Lincoln Center, there is Warren Perry, who will be talking about great communicators throughout April. He'll be talking about Tony Morrison. Hope to see some of you there.

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Erin Carlson Mast: Sounds great, thank you [[?]], I appreciate it. Thank you. [Applause]