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Transcription: [00:18:01]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
So-- Do you have- the troops that were assigned from, you know for units to a, training for that. Was that in 1944 or did that start earlier on?
[00:18:17]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
No, that was earlier. That was earlier.
[00:18:19]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Earlier on.
{00:18:20]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Yeah, you know we had a training ground for troops in Poland. And, this was a special division, which was trained very far in Poland. And, how was that?
[00:18:45]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Heidelager

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Heidelager, yeah.

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
And Blizna.
[00:18:47]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Yeah. Blizna. Who did that? And said, "I go directly into target area in order to direct." Who did that? I went to the target area because it said, "If I am in the target area I know exactly that it won't hit that spot."
[00:19:06]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Oh, von Braun himself tells that story.
[00:19:08]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
I believe von Braun.
[00:19:09]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Yeah, I, I've read it. He said that they were trying to understand the air burst problem. And he said they couldn't be, that if they sat right at the, at the target ground zero, that they wouldn't be hit, and then one landed very close.
[00:19:26]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
You are right, this is where the air burst, where we didn't know what is the reason for the air burst, and they want to find out what, and you couldn't find out when you launched over water, so the idea was, why don't we use Blizna, and then we can find out.
[00:19:41]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Interestingly enough, the idea originally came from Himmler. Because after the air raid, in the first air raid in August '43, he went to Hitler and said, "We must have been betrayed. You know, we should, we should move production underground, which of course became Mittelwerk, we should move Peenemünde into Poland, and launch them in Poland."
[00:20:13]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
All that came out of that was just the launching ground at Heidelager, which was, which was officially an SS launching area.
[00:20:23]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
You probably have heard that Himmler wanted to have that whole Peenemünde under his jurisdiction. And, he tried his darndest to get von Braun in that direction, and von Braun wasn't-- An SS major, "Honoris Causa".
[00:20:46]

I have seen von Braun in the SS uniform one time, and that was when Dornberger forced von Braun because Himmler came to visit Peenemünde.
[00:20:59]

"You use that uniform!" That was one time that I saw von Braun in that uniform. And Himmler had, maybe you have heard this story, Himmler had talked with von Braun, and had told him, "Look, when you go work together with us, you get more money then you get from the army." You probably heard that story.
[00:21:22]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Yeah. He, the only thing that I would like to know about it is more, but the only source we have is von Braun, and he said that in February '44, Himmler called him to headquarters and said, "Why don't you come over to us?", and von Braun refused to do it.
[00:21:43]

And then of course the arrest, arrest only came what, 3 weeks later or something like that, when he and Gröttrup, and somebody else, whose name I forget.
[00:21:52]

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Riedel.

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Riedel.

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Riedel.

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Klaus Riedel?

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Klaus Riedel.
[00:21:55]

{SPEAKER nme="Michael Neufeld"}
Klaus Riedel. Was, were thrown in jail, and were only salvaged by Speer and Dornberger's efforts.

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
Yeah, right, right.
[00:22:04]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
But, so, sometime in '43, you, was the one time you saw von Braun sort of forced to wear an SS uniform for Himmler's purposes?

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Yup, yup.
[00:22:17]

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
Did you encounter Himmler at that time? From a distance?

{SPEAKER name="Karl Heimberg"}
No.

{SPEAKER name="Michael Neufeld"}
You just, he was there? Somewhere?

Um--

[00:22:31]

Transcription Notes:
**00:20:44 - Heimberg says "von Braun wasn't an SS major," then calls him an "Honoris Causa" - which means looked well upon "for the sake of honor" - "with esteem" for what he has done. SS-Truppenübungsplatz Heidelager was a military complex and concentration camp in Poland; slave labor from there was used at Blizna. Blizna, Poland was a V-2 missile launch site. von Braun is Wernher von Braun Mittelwerk was an underground factory during WWII. Dornberger is Walter Dornberger Klaus Riedel and Helmut Gröttrup were friends of von Braun's who were also arrested. Dornberger and Albert Speer worked for the group's release.