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Transcription: [00:17:18]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
were the black gallery by..

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah

[00:17:22]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
So that, there was always this sort of link, in that, I think things were very much in the air, so it was often not [[unintelligible]]

[00:17:30]
I think that certain persons might have criticized what they had going back.
{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Mm-hmm

[00:17:34]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
But, I don't--
If they had something to say, it wasn't important

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
[[Laughter]]

[00:17:40]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
or, it didn't matter

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah

[00:17:42]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
And, you're gonna always find people--
I think that in every city there's one, uh, had to comment to make is that, trying to put down certain artists because what they did weren't black or wasn't related to blackness.

[00:17:57]
That's very tough, you know, that they have that sort of illness.

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah

[00:18:00]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
But, it wasn't a situation, because, uh--
When, in that, at a certain extent, is that after one actually gone through so much that the people with whom she communicated with, and she knew, were very, very kind, and respectful of what she had accomplished.

[00:18:27]
And, that was beyond a lot of, sort of, social issues.
{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah, yeah

[00:18:33]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
What they made Alma time of day, you know.

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah, yeah

{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
The very [[guysitive?]], but if he wanted it-- He was a collector of hers and standing there. And when he announced Alma Thomas, which he came to see. Some black artist was talking and turned around and said "shut-up, I'll call the sheriff?". But, I thought that was a very, she got very angry, on it being told in that manner, and said "can't you see that this is something important?"

[00:19:07]
But, I mean, it wasn't, to him it wasn't a put-on. Of course, it shouldn't have been important to him, he would have [[unintelligible]]

{SPEAKER name="Judith Wilson"}
Yeah, yeah

[00:19:13]
{SPEAKER name="Sam Gilliam"}
But, I think that, in a lot of ways, that she was really a symbol, and really important now that I've seen a lot of sort of transitions
[00:19:22]

Transcription Notes:
Background hiss. Hard to make out certain parts. Alma Thomas is the African American artist being discussed in the interview; she died four months before the interview took place.