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00:04:11
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Transcription: [00:02:11]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Also, if that's the case then, umm, I would say that none of Irwin's works have been predetermined by the architecture. He has manipulated the architecture in order to--
[00:02:35]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Interesting point, no, it's an interesting point.

[00:02:38]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Yeah, he has manipulated the architecture in order to embrace his work. Whereas if, --

[00:02:43]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
That's an interesting point.

[00:02:44]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
You come into a room like this it's predetermined there are windows all the way around and you just take out the windows.

[00:02:52]
Okay, okay you say, well okay that's a manipulation of architecture. Perhaps it is, but in fact you're, what you're doing what you're pulling in and pulling out are architectural components.

[00:03:06]
You're not pu- you're not imbuing the work necessarily with-with um--

[00:03:16]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Well given the simplistic devil's advocate question is, is that enough? If you are an artist, why do you choose to enhance the work of the architect instead of doing your own, that's the simplistic--

[00:03:28]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Enhance the work of the architect?

[00:03:29]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Sure

[00:03:30]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Because it's an issue.

[00:03:31]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Work in concert--

[00:03:32]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I don't know. I don't I don't know if I enhance it--

[00:03:34]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Why do you feel that--
[00:03:36]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I don't think I- I don't think I, I always enhance it. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.
[00:03:41]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Or but at least you desire would be to. For some reason you might not.
[00:03:44]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Uh-huh, I think it-- I--
[00:03:46]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Or might not enhance, maybe work in concert with or-or come in at an angle--
[00:03:49]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
I think this is a very subversive work.
[00:03:51]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Okay, the document[?] piece.
[00:03:53]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Yes. No, no.
[00:03:54]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I mean the uh, yes, the really huge piece.
[00:03:57]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
No, no.
[00:03:58]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Which one is that?
[00:03:59]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
This work here. This is from Chicago. And I did that before. I knew, I--
[00:04:05]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
Why do you feel that the Chicago work is that subversive?
[00:04:08]
{SPEAKER name="Michael Asher"}
Subversive?
[00:04:09]
{SPEAKER name="Jan Butterfield"}
I mean, I think the other Chicagoan was more subversive.


Transcription Notes:
Lots of cross talk and stammering