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132 HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM Whether that traffic pattern, the route pattern of California airlines would be--it is probably the longest stage length of any helicopter operation. New York, which has a vast commuting distance from New Jersey, New York, and Connecticut, and even into Rhode Island involved, would probably offer a very fine example of how you could use a plane of this character to concentrate into perhaps Providence and New Haven and Westport and on down to places of that kind around New York, perhaps, to get a longer distance at which you would use the smaller helicopters to concentrate your load factor or have your cars parked around as the commuting trade does with the railroad station today. Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir, I think that is perfectly possible. For example, in the case of the high-speed, northeast-corridor problem, which has gotten a fair amount of publicity recently, most of the people, I think in this country, think in terms of assaulting that problem on the surface. I know that most of the people in this room certainly think in terms of the probability of being able to solve it more advantageously through the traveling public with air routes and with machines similar to the XC-142. Senator MONRONEY. For example, if you had a barge of, say 500-foot length, which I presume would not be too expensive to buy, anchored in the East River off of the Battery in New York, it would be very easy for you to operate on your STOL configuration, would it not, into the very close-in downtown locations of New York City? Mr. THAYER. Yes, it would. Senator MONRONEY. And into Chicago and the Lake as well, I presume? Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir, I don't think we would need 500 feet. Senator MONRONEY. 500? Mr. THAYER. I don't think we would need 500 feet. Senator MONRONEY. I was just playing it safe. Could you land on the Pan American building? Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. Would you? Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. You would have that much confidence? Mr. THAYER. If the plane was up there, we could land it there tomorrow. Senator MONRONEY. If Pan American would let you. Mr. THAYER. I understand the top of the building is stressed for 50,000 pounds. That allows for plenty of growth in the airplane. Senator MONRONEY. In other words, you figure that for a commuter plane, this would probably be the most useful plane yet devised, providing the stage lengths beyond 15 or 25 miles in length? Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir. On city downtown to city downtown, or city center to city center, I think this type of airplane has to come into its own. Senator MONRONEY. As I understand it, on your hover it consumes a great deal more fuel and makes it less economic than when you use it as a STOL with the 200- or 250- foot run? Mr. THAYER. Yes, sir; it consumes more fuel and the payload is less.