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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM        167

MR. BELINN. No, sir. We have some flag stops into Ontario. Our aircraft all fill up at the terminal points. We do have one or two flights into Ontario which develop some business. But there is, from where we sit in Ontario, not much of a generating area.

Senator MONRONEY. You would probably figure, would you not, your longer stage flights are the ones which make you the most money? 

Mr. BELINN. In the long run, this is where the pay dirt is.

Senator MONRONEY. Because it doesn't cost any more to board a person from Riverside to Los Angeles than it does to board him at Pomona or the San Gabriel Valley.

Mr. BELINN. There is very little added to direct operating costs. This is one reason, among others, why our total operating cost, historically, has been probably the low in the industry level. 

Senator MONRONEY. So that the longer the run—and I notice San Bernardino is equivalent to the population of Seattle—and the Riverside area is equivalent to the population of Oklahoma City, both of which offer you long stage flights, maximum stage flights, plus Orange County, which is a relatively long stage flight, Orange County approximately the population of Cleveland, Ohio, another good stage flight, and even up at the Whittier-Norwalk area, a population comparable to Buffalo, N.Y., and the southern area, which I guess that is en bloc, which you show is equivalent to the population of Pittsburgh, Pa.—with towns like that to serve, including the central area the size of Miami or a western area the size of Baltimore, you have a very rich trade territory, it seems to me, if you could only serve a small fraction of it.

Mr. BELINN. We believe so. We are in the job of trying to develop it and serve a useful purpose in our community, and, at the same time, pave the way for this great problem of transportation in our large suburban and metropolitan areas.

Senator MONRONEY. What are your sample fares, for example, from San Bernardino to Los Angeles? I think we heard Newport Beach to Los Angeles is about $10, which is a very cheap fare for that distance. 

I can see how it would be economical since once they are airborne there is very little cost, extra cost, for the additional 20 or 30 miles. 

Mr. BELINN. I listened with a great deal of interest on this whole fare discussion ever since I came here. The phenomena, or theory, or whatever you prefer to call it, the fare structure is one which is very, very complicated and very difficult. 

Specifically, in referring to the $10 fare between San Bernardino and Los Angeles——

Senator MONRONEY. Is it $10 from San Bernardino to Los Angeles, and $10 from Balboa or Newport Beach to Los Angeles? How about San Fernando? About $10 up there to the end of the line.

Mr. BELINN. That is $7, I believe—I am sorry—it is $6.

Senator MONRONEY. That is a great deal cheaper than taxicabs. 

Mr. BELINN. No. Our fare theory, Senator, is predicated on about doubling the most acceptable form of competitive transportation.

Senator MONRONEY. That would probably be buses, would it not?

Mr. BELINN. Taxicabs in this case.