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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM     207

We had thought, and we are convinced, that under the right auspices, maybe we can arrange to have joint fare arrangements with enough carriers to make this an operation that would at least break even very quickly after inauguration.

Senator Monroney. You mentioned something that kind of irritates me, and that is the joint fare rate. I have been flying about as much as anybody can possibly fly. So far as I had ever experienced the so-called joint fare arrangement, I am on the losing end.
 
In other words, if I go in-I hate to mention the personal experience-to get to Oklahoma City, I have to go through Dallas, Tex., which is very repulsive to an Oklahoman. If I have to go in via American Airlines and have the good fortune to catch within an hour of my arrival at Dallas, Tex., an American plane going north to Oklahoma City, then I can, through the joint fare arrangement-I don't know what it is at the present time; in the past it has been about a dollar extra-I am carried up to Oklahoma City because of the inadequacies of straight through service furnished by American Airlines.

By the same token, if I go by Braniff to Dallas, if I am fortunate enough to catch a Braniff plane going to Dallas, I get carried for a dollar because of the inadequacies of the Braniff service to Oklahoma City. 

They also have, which they have never implemented, and someday might lost, their flight rates between Oklahoma City and Washington, D.C.

It would seem to me that if you are going to have these joint rates, they shouldn't be dependent on whether I am making a connection by coming in on a detoured route through Dallas, Tex., by American and want to catch a Braniff flight and have to pay the $15 or so for the Braniff trip for this detour. In other words, it goes only to utilizing, I guess you would call this, and interline connection or something, it goes only to utilizing American into Dallas and American to Oklahoma City, which may cause you to wait a half day or three-quarters of a day before you can catch a desirable flight. 

I have never experienced in all my flying any interline advantage that I have ever had. I am just an average passenger, a user of air service. All this ATA stuff leaves me absolutely cold. If I could miss an interline advantage during my interflight experience, I would like to knowhow we expect the average flyer taking and utilizing service to get any advantage of it. 

I don't get any value of it. You don't get a nickel out of it, do you?

Mr.Cummings. Yes, sir; I think we do.

Senator Monroney. You cut your own rates, don't you?

Mr.Cummings. Yes, sir; because we get a lot of passengers we wouldn't get otherwise. 

Senator Monroney. You get passengers you wouldn't get otherwise because the rate is low. What about working on the rate itself rather than making me buy a ticket, as Mr.Tipton testified yesterday, to London, in order to get a lower-priced helicopter trip out of Kennedy International. This doesn't seem to me like any cooperation by the scheduled airlines. 

I hate to see it masquerading as such. 

Mr.Cummings. I didn't mean to present it as such. I meant to present it as a promotion business project on our part. I submit it honestly is.