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208    HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM

Senator MONRONEY. I think it is a good business promotion, just like low rates are good business promotion.

Mr. CUMMINGS. It isn't a give-away program.

Senator MONRONEY. When you put the women in the air and let them go at half-fare, they let their husbands travel.

Mr. CUMMINGS. This isn't a give-away program, nor is it in that sense a program that is enticing people to do something they wouldn't do otherwise.

What it does do is tie us into the complex of the Nation's airlines so that when someone living in Newark finds that the aircraft he actually wants to fly to the coast, or to Oklahoma, is taking off from Kennedy, he knows that he can get a helicopter and he can ride the helicopter either for free or take a taxi.

Senator MONRONEY. Let's be specific. We had London as an example. Let's take Oklahoma City. I want to get there from downtown New York. Do I get my trip to Kennedy International subsidized so that I can get there on an American flight? I can't get a jet flying out of Washington for Oklahoma City.

Mr. CUMMINGS. We don't have a joint fare. I should not have mentioned Oklahoma City.

Senator MONRONEY. I thought you did. I thought maybe I had been missing something.

Mr. CUMMINGS. I know.

Senator MONRONEY. We are only half-way across the country. I have to go clear to Los Angeles. People in the middle of the country don't matter any more to trunklines. We don't exist.

Mr. CUMMINGS. I heard the discussion yesterday and I should have known better. [Laughter.]

I apologize, to myself as well as to you, Senator.

Senator MONRONEY. I understand, from page 22 of your statement, you discuss these four points directly. So, rather than talk about what is wrong, let's talk about what is right on some of these things, and how we can solve them.

Mr. CUMMINGS. What I am trying to lead to, and not doing very successfully, is the fact that I believe that with the utilization of the joint fare arrangement with more and more carriers on more and more routes, we have a chance to develop our business at a rate which will expedite the elimination of subsidy. 

Senator MONRONEY. Maybe we are talking about the same thing, but just under different terminology. I don't intend, in saying that I think the airlines should subsidize, that they should take a hunk of money out of their treasury and drop it into your treasury. What I have in mind is that some progressive airline maybe exists, some trunkline that is progressive enough, that maybe thinks that the job of flying passengers from their destination, where they originate downtown to the airport, and from the airport to downtown, is just as important as serving gin to them on their flights, or just as important as a flossy club from which 90 percent of the air traffic passengers are excluded, or just as important as having movies you would like not to see in flight, that the fact of transporting people by air from destination to the airport is just as important, if not more important, than that. 

You might be able, if you have TWA, we will say, which is a progressive airline, sell a ticket to Oklahoma City and as you buy