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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM  209

the ticket, say, would you like helicopter service to and from-in this case it would be only to the airport, because I don't propose helicopter service from Oklahoma City, but we can get out pretty fast, and faster in a few months after we complete our network of roads-but to say "would you like helicopter service out to Kennedy International?"

I would say, "How much?" The answer would be, "The normal fare is $15 for the trip, but because of our interline participation, we will sell you a helicopter ticket for $10."

That's a good bargain. I will buy it. They would perhaps pay you the $15 for the trip, and because they sold one ticket that went with the ticket to Oklahoma City halfway across the country, they might absorb that $5 of expense. 

Would there be anything wrong with that? They could advertise free helicopter service for mid-America passengers departing by New York Airways to Kennedy International, or to Newark or any of the other fields. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. There is nothing wrong with that. In substance, that is the way it works right this minute. 

Senator MONRONEY. In other words, you don't have enough interline traffic. it only counts if you go to London, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. 

I am getting tired of these rates being so much cheaper to go farther. The farther the distance, the more they stack on to the short haul, and the short haul is defined as halfway across the United States. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. About 40 percent of our total passengers-and we carried 253,000 on schedule last year-travel on these joint fare arrangements. 

Senator MONRONEY. Half of your passengers?

Mr. CUMMINGS. Not all of them are free. A substantial majority of them are free, about 30 percent of the total.

Senator MONRONEY. You don't mean free?

Mr. CUMMINGS. We get paid just about our full local fare. The passenger himself saves a lot of money. 

Senator MONRONEY. What is your full local fare to Kennedy International?

Mr. CUMMINGS. From Kennedy to Newark, $10. 

Senator MONRONEY. How much from Kennedy downtown?

Mr. CUMMINGS. Kennedy to downtown, $9.  [[margin]] $8 [[/margin]]

Senator MONRONEY. It doesn't matter whether the distance is greater or less, because boarding is the major part of our expense anyways. An extra three or hour minutes of air time to get 4, 5, or 10 miles more is relatively unimportant to the cost of the trip?

Mr. CUMMINGS. That is about it, yes, sir. 

We think that as important as these joint fares are, we still have about 60 percent of our passengers traveling on full local raters. They buy their tickets directly fro us or from an agent or someone of that sort. So that we can't fuss with the fares too much because a majority of our passengers are thinking about the specific pice of the ticket, where as the others, of course, as you point out, are traveling at either a reduced rate or for nothing, where we do get, just about, our full local fare. 

If you would like to pursue this matter more fully in detail, I would like to tell again in an effort to see what we can do about our fare