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213    HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM

Senator MONRONEY. I am terribly grateful to you for your very helpful testimony.

Senator KENNEDY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Could I also make a personal observation? Mr. Grover Loening I see is here, and he was a great friend of President Kennedy and is a pioneer of air service, and works on airlines in the United States. We all owe him a great debt.

Senator MONRONEY. He is one of the great leaders of aviation. We are happy to have him here at the hearing.

Thank you, Senator Kennedy.

The Chair would like to go a little bit later today, perhaps to 12:30, so I will give everybody a stretch period.

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes at this time.

(Recess)

Senator MONRONEY. The committee will resume its hearing. The Chair will try not to interrupt Mr. Cummings as often as he has been doing. I have done that to try to amplify the record and the very great importance that we attach to the help coming from some of the trunk lines that are furnishing the bulk of the passengers now, perhaps to the helicopter line.

FURTHER STATEMENT OF ROBERT L. CUMMINGS

Mr. CUMMINGS. Before I ask Mr. Turner to speak, I will go over three or four more ideas we developed in the New York area.

You mentioned TWA is a progressive airline. I agree with you very much. There are a lot of others, however. We have negotiated with TWA a contract which I believe, given time, can et a pattern which will help to solve the problem with which we are all confronted.

In connection with the service to be inaugurated from the roof of the Pan American Building, we have entered into a contract with TWA to operate 17 round trips a day from the roof of the Pan American Building to the Kennedy Terminal of TWA.

They have, in effect guaranteed our revenues on those flights, such as to meet all of our operating costs, all-out depreciation, taxes, and everything else. If we charge, as we propose to currently, although we haven't filled a fare schedule-if we charge $10 a head from the Pan American Building to Kennedy International, this means that TWA had guaranteed that we will carry at least an average of 11½ passengers per flight because, historically, our operating expenses, including a return on our investment, the all-out expenses add up to $115 a one-way trip, which has been guaranteed by TWA for 17 round trips a day.

Senator MONRONEY. Is that only going to be good for a round trip off the top of the Pan American?

Mr. CUMMINGS. It is $115 per one-way trip. They guarantee it. Currently the pattern is only from the top of the Pan American Building to Kennedy International. We have a similar arrangement with Pan American, by the way, but I want to describe that a little further.

Senator MONRONEY. That will be overseas, which is customarily done at the present time, as I understand it.

Mr. CUMMINGS. Except that this is a different arrangement. The full local fare is charged, whatever it is. The airline, TWA,