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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM     215

people who bought at that time, I think are wondering why.  However, it is just another example of what has happened as a result of this situation that we are now in.

Our ability to help ourselves has been practically eliminated.  But we do have a program which, with the support of this committee and the Congress, we can live within the Civil Aeronautics Board program.

Our ability to live within the Civil Aeronautics Board's 5-year phaseout program is dependent upon our ability to do the things I am describing.

The negotiations that were being conducted with the other airlines, it isn't quite fair to say they have been destroyed because they haven't been, but they have certainly gotten no place since then, and in spite of our best efforts, no one will talk to us about the idea any more.

Senator MONRONEY.  Is it also a fact that in addition to adversely affecting your financial arrangements, you can't get as good a price for your new transport helicopters, because if the market is going to terminate as of July 1, 1965, of December 31, 1965 there will be no desire for a helicopter manufacturer to think he is going to be able to create a market by improving these planes and selling them at the very lowest cost, the cost being based on the expectation, as is often done, of the follow-on business because of the profitable operation in transport work?

Mr. Cummings. We, as you know, are supported here very strongly by the manufacturers. I, as a practical business matter, can't understand how they can do otherwise than what you suggest. 

Senator MONRONEY. Maybe they are impractical idealists, or they wouldn't have stayed with the helicopters as long as they have, but now, I think, they have brought them forth at this length of time to a very practical operating mechanism.

Now we have to prove, although we have largely proved the feasibility of commercial operation, we are just a wee bit shy on the money necessary to sustain that operation.  This is what we are looking for as other sources of that money to make this get over the top to where it will be a good free enterprise, self-sustaining business, and we can be proud of the fact that we subsidized it in the beginning.

Mr. CUMMINGS. I would like to suggest, to reconstruct, that the TWA type contract of guaranteed revenues does the potential of a pattern which, with the encouragement of the Congress and the adopted of the 5-year CAB program, can result in an extremely beneficial financial assistance to our industry.

I think, in addition, that the trunk carriers should be encouraged to advertise our services wherever they possibly can, in their time tables and other promotional materials. They ought to talk about helicopters. They ought to, instead of just referring to service from wherever to New York-Newark. They ought to talk about downtown Manhattan to promote this effort. They ought to stimulate and would accept stimulation from this committee.

Furthermore, it is not impossible to get guarantees of some sort of actual financial support unless we meet predetermined, if you like, load factors and generate a predetermined number of passengers. I think with their help, there is no doubt about it, we could do it.