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HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM 223 Senator MONRONEY. It seems to me - I thought you told me that it was $115 for a plane load, that you were guaranteed by TWA. Mr. CUMMINGS. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. That is to Kennedy International from Pan Am? Mr. CUMMINGS. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. How would you come out on a capacity plane load at $2 a hundred late at night from the downtown heliport to Kennedy International? Could you carry enough? What are your mathematics on that? Mr. CUMMINGS. A full load of mail at $2.58 a ton-mile between the Pan Am Building and Kennedy would be approximately $70. So it would be well short of our- Senator MONRONEY. I would certainly go to the post office and say that this is quite important, because you can't be expected-if you had a capacity load and it would not pay you to run that at a full capacity load, you are not being paid enough for the helicopter service to carry the mail. Mr. CUMMINGS. That is exactly right. There is no question about that. That is why we had to give up a mail service that we think was extremely useful, but it was nothing more or less than a drag on our economy. Senator MONRONEY. It is very important that this mail not be delayed in getting from downtown to the airport. Mr. CUMMINGS. And it moves to a substantial extent after passengers do, so that we have the aircraft available. Senator MONRONEY. I would certainly suggest that you go before the people in the Post Office Department and make your case, that your minimum figure, the one the airline is willing to accept, $115, and that you can't afford to run the helicopter fully loaded with mail, and you shouldn't use the passengers to subsidize Uncle Sam to move the mail to the outlying airports, or probably a transfer between the airports, which is quite important for the rapid movement of mail. Mr. CUMMINGS. Yes. We carried last year about 20,000 ton-miles of mail. We were paid $54,000 for that, in mail pay, at the rate of $2.58 a ton-mile. Senator MONRONEY. How long has the $2.58 a ton-mile rate been in effect? Mr. CUMMINGS. Ever since the very beginning-since the subsidy separation. Senator MONRONEY. Since the subsidy separation, and what date was that? Mr. CUMMINGS. 1953-54. Senator MONRONEY. Don't you imagine we have had several rail rate increases on mail since 1953? I don't see why they would expect you to be static in your costs. I am surprised that you haven't gone down to talk to them. Mr. CUMMINGS. We have talked a great deal to them about it, but we haven't gotten very far. Senator MONRONEY. Is there anybody from the Post Office Department in attendance here? I am surprised the Post Office is not concerned with the movement of mail by helicopter. (No response.)