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252 HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM

of dollars we spend on it, that a few thousand dollars could have been spent to make these helicopter routes more feasible. 

I understand the Assistant Administrator is responsible for this. I want to be sure I am right. 

Mr Loening. Since we are talking subsidies, I want to point out that there seems to be a feeling that 17 years of subsidies to helicopters is sort of outrageous. I want to remind whoever is thinking that in that department to remember the 50 or 60 years--I am not sure how many, or maybe longer--that agriculture in various departments has been receiving subsidies from the Government. So that is not a valid reason.

Personally, I think that the extension of helicopter lines to Houston, Atlanta, San Francisco, Washington, D.C., to cite four cities needing this service, should be the next step. I think that a reduction of the subsidies for New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago is not in order. 

There are other angles that require subsidy to fully develop the prestige, the usefulness, and the real answer that this method of transportation can give to cities, to airports, and to get away from this terrible city traffic situation.

For example, the Maritime Commission, when I was there, I remember too well, with Mr. Kennedy, the Maritime Commission was paying very handsome subsidies to shipping construction people if they would include in their ship construction certain foundations for guns that would be useful in time of war, and other details.

How about doing this for a roof heliport? The roof heliport is to the Government and the police and military a very important thing to have in a big city in case of riots, in case of fire, and in case of several other emergencies.

Incidentally, sir, you mentioned medicare. In medicare, any new hospital that is built should be built with a roof heliport, with suitable arrangements to bring a survivor of a crash or someone whose life can be saved, quickly into the operating room. 

In other words, in my opinion, in 1966, if I saw a design of a new hospital that didn't have a roof heliport, I would consider it very out of date, and it shouldn't receive any subsidy until it does. 

Of course, it costs a little more--not too much if caught right at the beninning [[beginning]]. This can be subsidized. 

Also, heliports in other locations, on the roofs of any large buildings that is coming along, could--the roof heliports--could well be helped and subsidized under the airport assistance program that is now going through.

I believe some ground heliports are included. I believe no roof heliports are. The roof heliports should be asked for first because in the ground conditions, say in the East River, suppose you have a flood in New York, what do you do with your ground heliport? Or a hurricane in Florida, where the water will go up 10 or 12 feet and put out of commission any ground heliport just when you need it. This is another advantage why a heliport has commanding merit. 

If I have any more time, I would suggest that you ask the questions.

Senator Monroney. You have covered it so completely, Mr. Loening, I am almost without questions for once. I admire what you said in the beginning, that it is not the time to quit, that it is the