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290 HELICOPTER AIR SERVICE PROGRAM Mr. BAGAN. Oh, yes, we have arranged 30 or 40 flights a day. Senator MONRONEY. You do? Mr. BAGAN. Between those two airports. Senator MONRONEY. That was one of the questions I asked. You have a two-legged triangle? Mr. BAGAN. Yes, but the triangle on the schedule doesn't necessarily show how the flights go. We have approximately 85 flights a day. About every 20 minutes, we have a flight. Senator MONRONEY. Between the two airports? Mr. BAGAN. Between the two airports, or downtown and Berkeley. It varies. It is almost like running a large airline except our segments are much shorter. During the peak periods when any of these points can support direct service, we have direct flights as between two airports. During the offpeak hours, you might run a round-robin service. They might stop at three or four points. It is similar to a large airline except it is very highly concentrated in one area. Senator MONRONEY. On that offpeak service, you go on call, do you? Mr. BAGAN. No, sir. Everything is scheduled. Senator MONRONEY. You know when the peaks are going to come and the offpeak? Mr. BAGAN. Yes. The traffic in the midday is lighter than normally in the morning or evening. Senator MONRONEY. What type equipment do you use? Mr. BAGAN. We are operating three 10-passenger Sikorsky S-62's turbine equipment. Senator MONRONEY. Twin-turbine? Mr. BAGAN. That is a single-turbine, 10-passenger. We also took delivery in February of this year and are now operating a twin-turbine S-61, 26 passenger ship. Senator MONRONEY. DO you have trouble getting close by into downtown Oakland or San Marin County because of your single-engine aircraft. Mr. BAGAN. No, we haven't had too much of a problem. About 95 percent of all our flying is out over the bay. All our helicopters are amphibious in case of an emergency landing. We have been very fortunate in obtaining heliport sites. I would like to say, in this instance, we have taken the policy view that the community must make available a heliport. That is their contribution. We have heliports now in all of these communities, and the communities have built them at their expense, and so forth. We pay a total charge of 25 cents a passenger. Senator MONRONEY. You mean that you rent the heliport at 25 cents a passenger rate? Mr. BAGAN. That is right. Actually we run the heliport for the city as a fixed base operator, then also pay them 25 cents a passenger. Senator MONRONEY. You do land on heliports close in to downtown? Mr. BAGAN. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. How far are you from the center of downtown Oakland? Mr. BAGAN. Downtown Oakland, we are right in the center of downtown Oakland. Two years ago, Oakland, the first rooftop