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Y: I don't know, because I really don't emphasize technique maybe as much as I should in my teaching. 

G: Well, you know what I was thinking of. You told me in our phone conversation that you always encourage the students to approach the canvas with love, or with a loving brush, and I think it's that kind of thing....

Y: With care and concern for that surface that they are dealing with.

G: Yes. But I think, you know, for me there is nobody who now teaches in Chicago or who is -- at least among the more senior artists, some of the younger people may be veering away from this, who slosh around in paint the way those New York folk do, even Richard Loving who in recent canvasses is doing certain areas that are more thickly painted, when we get up close it's very interesting, it's very carefully demarcated, and the brushstrokes have such a rhythm and pattern and kind of delicacy, even though it's a very thickly painted kind of area. So I think there is that kind of very Chicago kind of control, that it is very much an attitude and one that you share, I think, judging from the surfaces of your canvasses.

Y: You know, I wonder whether that indirectly comes from Westerman's existence in Chicago at an earlier period, because I think a lot of us have admired his ability to craft things carefully and in the right amount of craft somehow. I think that whenever something is