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If this were turned down and available immediately, as far as refunding we o concerned, would that change your thinking at all? MR. SKOGLUND: No, because I think you have got that already done and accomplished in Eastern Airlines because they have got the money. MR. SILVER: I asked you if that would change your thinking. You would realize 100% rather than 11%. MR. SKOGLUND: But we are gaining something also. We are making Western Airlines a better airline. MR. SILVER: There is no question about that. MR. SKOGLUND: At the same time we are making Colonial a better airline. We have got a very combination, in my opinion. But as a stockholder that is definitely my feeling. We will have a better structure all way around. MR. SILVER: I think there is no question. MR. SKOGLUND: We get easily got an issue of stock sold because would water down our interests. MR. SILVER: In other words, your gamble is adding up all the sides. You are gambling the fact that it will finally be approved versus what it would be if it isn't. There are certainly two sides to it. MR. SKOGLUND: One hand is helping the other. I think we are helping Eastern quite as much as they are helping us. DR. MOSS: Merging with the Eastern we can keep the planes in the air a great many more hours of the day than if we are a small unit ourselves. Eastern has so many more routes. A plane can come from Bermuda and go on to St. Louis or Miami and vice versa. As I understand it, one of the main sources of prosperity is the ability to keep the planes in the air the largest number of hours. MR. BARNITT: You will find our planes stay in the air pretty near the same time as Eastern. DR. MOSS: But both would stay longer in you had the merger. MR. SILVER: That is a matter of conjecture. We haven't even touched the freight business, for instance. That we haven't been able to go into at all. We haven't been able to do anything as far as closing up our route gap is concerned. New York--Washington and New York and any other extensions--I certainly agree with you. If you just looked at our present operation and said that is what it is going to be, it wouldn't be too much of a show. By the same token even Colonial has as much right granted it by the basic feeling we have in this country as far as airline operation is concerned to expand as any other airline, and in my opinion I think we have to realize that back in 1949, I believe it was, when TCA granted the New York--Montreal run we at that same time were given certainly to understand indirectly that we would get something in return for that loss, for that increase in competition. To the best of my knowledge, we were never granted anything since then in any major route revision. Certainly I think that is a point that would bear an awful lot of weight as far as Colonial is concerned if they decided to operate as a separate identity to put before the Civil Aeronautics Board, and I have every reason to believe we would certainly have at least an honest chance of getting it. MR. SKOGLUND: Am I correct or incorrect in this, that we are up against another proposition that probably is not too easy to handle? We service a seasonable business, so to speak, in a great many respects. THIS CHAIRMAN: Yes, that is right. MR. SKOGLUND: That isn't altogether good. It is like a concern that goes full blast for nine months--Philco, Norge and the rest of them. Comes summer and their business falls off. As a result of that, their suppliers, if they are tied pretty close to that industry, having a devil of a time soaring up the industry. MR. SILVER: This is absolutely correct. And the airline industry has combatted that by an interchange agreement. There is certainly nothing, in my opinion, to prevent Colonial from entering into an interchange agreement with carriers that have a similar need to keep their equipment busy. Also, as Captain Barnitt pointed out, as far as our Bermuda business is concerned (I may be incorrect on this and stand corrected if I am) to the best of my knowledge we are the only operator certificated between Washington and Bermuda, and if we look over the entire geographic location of the population south and southwest and west of Washington and realize that much of that traffic is through-traffic to Bermuda; and knowing, secondly that naturally a person is interested in getting the lowest fare possible, if we we protracted that and tried to indicate what the result would be, it would be very favorable. (13)