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And of course that was a big problem for Jasper. And I think that he always solved it...always resolved it in the years that followed -- it sometimes took him longer, but he has solved it brilliantly.
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Ques: OK Leo would you start again and say the business about -- I first met Jasper Johns at Bob Rauschenberg's...

Leo: I first met Jasper Johns at Bob Rauschenberg's studio. That was a few days after I had seen one of his paintings -- a great painting, as I then thought it was, I didn't see that it was a target. And...well I'm not with it now.

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Leo: I first met Jasper Johns at Bob Rauschenberg's studio. I had seen one of his paintings -- a green target, but I didn't know at the time that it was a target -- at the Jewish Museum a few days before. And when he came up and was introduced to me I just couldn't wait to see...he told also that his studio was downstairs --I couldn't wait to see his painting and asked Bob whether we could not interrupt the proceedings there in his studio, and go down to Jasper's [[strikethrough]] old [[/strikethrough]] studio and see what he was doing. I was confronted there then with an amazing array of flags -- blue,white and red; white, grey targets with [[strikethrough]] black [[/strikethrough]] plaster casts; letters, painting with alphabets, and numbers. And I was so impressed that I immediately asked Jasper if he wanted to join my gallery. My gallery had just begun its career a few months before.

Ques: When was that?