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LK: I never think of it like I'm doing automatic writing--or--at one point I do think of it that way. And today I think of it that way-- but that's a conscious through, and it has nothing to do with what enters, with what I term "psychological content" in the painting.

EW: The reason I asked particularly, was because I'd just been looking at the Pollock catalog from the Museum of Modern Art (1967), and there was a little section that related that Baziotes, and Motherwell and his wife, and  you and Pollock once experimented with writing "automatic poetry". I don't know whether that included you, or whether it was simply them.

LK: No, no--I'm terribly confused about all that--I'll tell you why--

EW: It is in the Catalog--

LK: I know, I've seen it. And I also, in the haziest kind of way, I remember seeing Baziotes and his wife, and Motherwell and his wife, and Jackson and myself--like, maybe we were having dinner together, or something, and someone would say "Let's do ---", and then this thing would come up. On the other hand, I'd done that before then-- we used to play games, before this period, before I know Pollick, or Motherwell, or Baziotes. We'd play a game, which it seemed to me everybody was playing, if you had nothing better to do with the evening, and that is, like, you take a sheet of paper, and you say, O.K., we're going to draw a woman. And I give it to you first, and you have to start with the head, and then you fold it over, and give it to me, and I like have to do the next part, and then it's folded over... so that thing preceded any of this other aspect. Now today, perhaps, that's called some connection with surrealism--you know, that may be, I didn't experience it that way. So let's say before we did this game, and then later it's more conscious, you know, but it's all the same game really in another form of it--

EW: Then you've never really felt this in connection with your own work?

LK: No, I'd say that connection, or that awareness, comes to me considerably later, and long after I'm married to Jackson.

EW: In relation to this, I wanted to ask you about your involvement with figuration. You seem to have used it considerably at some points, within the last two years, and then given it up for a time, and then come back to it. What exactly are your feelings about using suggestive figuration?

LK: Right-- Now, then, I must say to you, that must follow with a question--what do you mean by figuration?

EW: Well, the suggestion, perhaps--there was a painting I was shown at the gallery today, called "Siren"--it's a green painting--which is a beautiful painting--and yet, even though you don't feel that there are figures, per se, in it, you sense that there's the suggestion of figures, or breasts, or maybe an eye, or a bird like form. Or in the one called "Courtship", there is some kind of drawn (figuration)---

LK: Now your question to me is--there are cases where this is not present?