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expressionism and cubism is visual. But it pretends to be conceptual. I think that may be the...the underlying point of today's art. I think Pop is a particular facet of that. Pop deals with using commercial subject matter, and commercial subject matter seems to lack sensitivity usually, or at least the kind of commercial subject [[strikethrough]] maater [[/strikethrough]] matter that I use. And It's that sort of...anti-sensibilities and comceptual appearance of the work that interests me...And is my subject matter. 

Ques: Make me something more about the point you made about the society and anti-sensibility and your feeling about that as an individual in society, and what attitude do you bring to bear, how do you participate..., not in your work but in your own feeling about it. Would you say more about your feelings about our society's anti-sensibility? 

Roy: Well, I...I think that there's something, something very harsh about the society and something rather deadening perhaps about... oh, half-minute in depth news broadcasts and things like that which are all part of...which have more fanfare and more advertising than they have news. And where the kind of drawing that goes along with commercial art and the kind, the direction that...well the kind of schooling that advertising...let me say that kind of education that advertising seems to give the viewer or listener is very insensitive and...no thank you..and at the same time there's something very energetic about it. And I think it's the energy that the society has that is...interesting. The, I don't know what kind of...an effect this over-simplification has that's brought about, primarily be advertising I think, because..newspapers, radio broadcasts and everything else seem to be,not the complete content, but they