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not true probably that all commercial art is inferior, and I...believe I'm transforming this into something else, or at least that I'm forming art. There's no way to prove this. And all I can say is that I, you know, I think I'm doing something with it, which is entirely different. I think my purposes are completely different and I think that every mark, every contrast, in my work is really different from the original. Different both in purpose and in position and brightness and in every possible way. However it does resemble the original. In visual art...differences  are not as detectable as they are in some other arts. I think that they, perhaps in music if you change the tune only slightly it's almost instantaneously recognizable. In the graphic arts if you change an image slightly it's really not very recognizable.

END OF ROLL I

ROLL II * Take 2

Ques: You talked about anti-sensibility. But there is this thing about what you find in this and what do you
[[what do you see in the art you draw upon?]] make out of it that's meaningful to you? which I think needs some explanation.

Roy: Well, I think the thing that I find in commercial art...the, the world outside that's different from the, I mean the [[in the]] new world outside I guess largely formed by...industrialism or by advertising...is the, I think the energy is the greatest part of it, and the impact that it has and the directness, and a kind of aggression and, and hostility that come(s) through it. I don't mean that, that industrialization is attempting to be hostile. That's not the point. But (...) the aggressiveness is aggressive to the point of