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itself is extremely interesting and it has all of these commercial aspects also, but it has a tremendous mixture of things. I don't think that it's at all the typical city in America. I'm not so sure that Pop art is entirely American. It is entirely American in the sense that there's more industrialization here tha [[strikethrough]] t [[/strikethrough]] n there is anywhere else. But I think that the effects of industrialization are seen in many parts of the world.

AS: What happened to you before you came to New York?

RL: I was born in New York City, Broadway and 96th, and I went to school here. Went to college in 1940, Ohio State University. I had a slight stint in the summer, I think, of '39 at the Art Students League with Reginald Marsh and then I went out to Ohio State and I went through school there. I taught there for five years. I went to the Army from Ohio State, and then I went to Cleveland for seven years. I didn't teach - did various jobs, designing and so forth. I taught at Oswego for three years and then I went to Rutgers University, where I taught at Douglass College for three years; it was there that I became involved with the New York art world. Of course I'd painted all the way through this. I think that when I started college

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