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-17-

AS: It strikes me that you work hard. You always have a number of things going, and they take a bit of doing...

RL: Well, I do work on a number of paintings at once, [[strikethrough]] .. [[/strikethrough]] because I like to watch them over a long period of time. I feel there's a lot of perceptual filling in the act of painting, and that one talks himself into the work. And I like to let time elapse so that I can better see what it really looks like. So that I may be working on several things at once I usually do ceramic and several paintings all at the same time.

AS: How did you become interested in [[strikethrough]] the [[/strikethrough]] ceramic[[strikethrough]]s[[/strikethrough]] and porcelain enamels?

RL: Well, most of the painting that I've done has a mat finish, and that's one kind of industrial texture, but I got interested in very glossy surfaces which would be even more sanitary, I think, and which remind one of hospital corridors or lunch counters, or whatever [[strikethrough]] not [[/strikethrough]]. I started to try to do paintings in epoxy paint and had difficulty working with it. The idea occurred to me that I could have them porcelain enameled, as the subway signs are made. They also have the kind of embossed texture which is rather nice, where the lettering is on those signs. So I tried to find an