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4

And I think both Ken and Morris drove themselves and drove the problem toa [[to a]] point that really opened up for them and whatever they departed from they then took off on their own. And ----beautifully.

INT

((INAUDIBLE) . . .very big point about that.

HF

Yes, well, I always think that's in a way not fair to anybody, that I acknowledge it and say--and agree with it; you, it's true, but I think just the way nobody ever makes anybody's life, nobody ever ruins anybody's life. Nobody gives an answer or a beginning push. I think I was around and doing what I did Ken, being as intelligent and curious and open as he was took that and went on from there. And I guess--well, it's very funny to talk about. . .

INT

Well, I think you're being modest. . .

HF

I am being modest. . . .

INT

The fact is that is . . . . didn't want to paint . . . and nobody could find out . . opened a way. It's important enough . . .

HF

Well, looking back on it, yes. Wait a minute.

INT

(INAUDIBLE)

HF

You see. this is embarrassing in a way. And I'll get around it.