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Jeff Donaldson - 5 had said at one time that one of the major roles that the so - called intelligentsia in the black community had to play was to legitimize purple pants. Now, that was a thing that you saw in the '60s; there was quite a lot of color on people in the streets and although people didnt dye the fabrics, they chose to wear them, so that said something. But what that meant to us was that perhaps this was one way of attracting the attention of people by relating, because we saw that as an attention gathering mechanism as well as a self-expressive one. We saw that as a way of doing it; there was a brother named Robert Crawford, a photographer who was of the first, he used to come to the Africobra meetings meetings originally, but since his work was in black and white he didnt become a member of the organization. But in discussing that problem, he suggested that we were talking about koolaid colors, which is what they called the colors in the streets in those days. Q: My sense is that the sensibility that lay behind the choice the koolaid colors to wear in the streets goes way back. It goes back to the other side of the Atlantic. A: Yes. No question. That was one of the things we thought we could(link). But there is another thing to be looked at when you look at the ways Africans use color in dress and in decoration.. It's very restrained compared to the way we use it. ... Q: Had you been to Africa before the FESTAC II? A: Yes. I was the coordinator of Unites States participation. And so I had been there several times. We planned the festival five years. But when we started talking about Africobra, only one of the persons in Africobra had been to Africa. Now we have 15 members and all have been to Africa except one. And it makes a difference. Q: Vincent Smith said to me, part of the difference for him was if he wants to paint a house in Brooklyn he know what it looks like. Now, if he wants to paints something in Africa, he knows what that looks like. A: FESTAC took him to Africa. That was the difference between FESTAC and what happened in DAKAR in '66. They had the work of 10 artists and didnt take any. We had to work of 100 and took 75. It will make a lot of difference in the way that art looks, too. They've had a number of shows since FESTAC and you can see the impact of that experience, in the work of people who work non-objectively as well as people who work in what we call African modes. It's really been remarkable. One of the things I want to do is organize an international exhibition. Q: What have been the most important lasting effects of Cobra? A: It was responsible more than anything else for introducing a whole lot of people to the idea of having art. Because in the '60s everybody had to have 3 or 4 posters up, wherever he happened to be. And people got accustomed to having something of the walls. They perhaps want something less specific now, but they want something that makes them think of those days, because those were the days. You know it was rough, struggle; but there's something beautiful about being a part of that, about being a part of that change. And so we owe a great debt, those of us now selling art to people who are in their 30s and their 40s