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Lippard -5 using their work politically. As art it doesn't interest me much but I like it as a mixture, a kind of isolated use of art in a political context. UM: Anti-art is anti-establishment; that's one issue. But then it has a political and societal significance. LL: Not necessarily. Sometimes it's just anti-art establishment. Especially in New York, where everything is so involved with other art and other artists, it tends to be anti-art world, or in the art world rather than in the real world. UM: Sometimes there is anti-art in terms of life-style, which comes to be a substitute for [[strikethrough]] works of [[/strikethrough]] the creation of works of art. LL: Of course that's what the Dadaists and the Surrealists had in mind, but most artists that I know well today have a life-style as artists but not as anti-artists. That is, they see everything in terms of or from the viewpoint of their art; the way they live is focused on the fact that they are making art. UM: And to see the Hell's Angels? Life style as an art? LL: Well, that's just another form of what Huebler's going. It's a matter of looking at something, or life, from an art viewpoint, and therefore making it art, seeing it if not in an art context, then in a context involving isolation of the phenomenon in any way. Look at the Hells Angels' life style as an isolated phenomenon and it can be art, à la Duchamp. But imposing a new system, no matter how arbitrary, as Huebler does, is making life art in a more rigorous and intelligent way. Maybe the most anti-art artist I know whose work I like is Iain Baxter, who calls himself the N.E. Thing Co. He does a little bit of everything, and would much prefer to work entirely outside of the art world. He's not the least bit concerned if someone can't say, "Oh, that must be a Baxter" on the basis of style. He doesn't have or want a style and that frees him to do anything he wants. Bob Morris has always had an esthetic rather than a style [[strikethrough]] too [[/strikethrough]], but he has [[strikethrough]] worked in [[/strikethrough]] done bodies of work that are coherent in themselves, even when they co-exist with very different work, like his "anti-form" random roomsful and the simultaneous I-beam sculptures.