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208  Proceedings in Parliament, 1773.

Fox) that the idea of a national establishment, and a bounty to certain persons, under peculiar circumstances of distress, are totally repugnant and incompatible with each other. As to the honourable gentleman, who has proposed changing the original motion, I am neither fully satisfied of the certainty of the facts he has stated, nor why one exceptionable mode of processing should be adopted instead of another. I do not know what the administration of 1699 played any trick upon the House of Commons; or that, if they did, why any enquiry into that transaction should constitute any part of our duty. If we cannot comply with the prayer of the petition, such an enquiry would answer no purpose. That we cannot, without involving ourselves in consequences most carefully to be avoided, I again repeat; and what feeling heart, since this is the case, would wish to add insult to distress?

Mr. Ellis spoke on the side of Lord North; and Mr. Mackworth, Lord John Cavandish, Mr. Boscawen, Mr. Hawke, one of the Admiral's sons, Mr. Dowdeswell, and many other gentlemen, spoke in favour of the petition, which, however, was carried in the negative.
Wednesday 10 The order of the day being read, for taking into father consideration the affair of St. Vincent's (fee p. 108.) the Clerk proceeded to read the papers from the Secretary of State's office, relative to that expedition, which lasted from 3 in the afternoon till 8 at night; when Mr. T. Townshend moved, That Lieut. Generals Wooten and Trapaud be called in. The former asked if he has received any accounts from him regiment? and answering in the negative, he was told her might withdraw.
Gel. Trapaud was asked the same question, and acknowledged he had. He was asked the date of his last letters. He said of the 14th of November, and received the 17th of December. 
Mr. Townshend proposed, that, if the General had received any letters of business, if the House had no objection, in might be read. The House consenting, the General read part of a letter, which was to this effect:
"The mortality among the men is very great, owing to the heavy and continual rains which we have at this season. The poor Carbbis have been ill used. They act with great caution,

and the woods are so thick, that they knock our men down with the greatest security to themselves, as it is impossible we can see them. We have only been able to penetrate four miles into the country. God knows how this pretty expedition will end; all we hope for is, that the promoters and contrivers of it will be brought to a speedy and severe account."
[Ordered to withdraw. Mr. T. Townshend [addressing himself to Lord North]. I beg to be informed if Government has received any accounts of the above date, or later? His Lordship's answer was in the negative; and to be certain, he said, he had sent to the Secretary of State's office, and has received this answer, "This is not a scrap of paper in this office of a later date than the 9th of October, and which was received here with the 17th of November." This was thought very extraordinary by all parties! and Mr. Townshend moved, that the further examination of this affair might be put off till Friday, and in the man time hoped, that if any intelligence did arrive, it might be laid before the House without giving him the trouble of fishing for it, as he had been obliged to do throughout.
Friday 12. The affair of St. Vincent's was again resumed, and occasioned sharp altercations between the Minister and the promoters of the enquiry. At length Governor Gore was called to the bar. He was asked in general as to the temper of the Caribbs. His answer was, that they were quiet, well disposed people. At what time he left the Grenades? In the year 1765. If he had ever heard of any jealousies among them? None. If had ever heard that the planters envied them their lands? He said he had. If he could name any such planters? He names one Alexander. Ordered to withdraw. 
Lieut. Fletcher of the 32nd reg.] He gave candid answers to the questions put to him. Said he left the island in 1757; had been there three years; that the Caribbs were then peaceable; that the climate was unhealthy; that 122 of the men died the first year, and 309 in the three years he was there; that the Caribbs were will affected; that Governor Melville's opinion was, that gentle means were best to reduce them; that between May and June was the unhealthy seaonl and that an expedition against them during that

Proceedings in Parliament, 1773. 209

that season must be fatal to the men. Ordered to withdraw.
Capt. Farquahar.]  This gentleman acted as Lieutenant Governor eleven months in the absence of Governor Melville; never discovered any disposition in the Caribbs to quarrel; on the contrary, the used to bring pigeons and fish, and whatever else they could furnish, to barter with the army, and always behaved well.
Capt. Ross.] The Caribbs were at first peaceable, but a plan being formed to survey their lands, they grew turbulent and suspicious; and a guard of 40 men, commanded by a serjeant, who were ordered to protect the surveyors, were made prisoners by them. He said, that Mr. Alexander and the rest of the council, having requested the command of the troops to reduce their comrades, the whole number consisting of 120 effective men, machined within two miles of their main body; and that they voluntarily gave up the 40 men, without any hurt having been offered them, on condition that they surveyors should desist, and the inroads into their country be put to a stop. He said, the Caribbs were not to be depended on; that they were by nature thieves; that the climate was unhealthy; that, if the troops at first landing were exposed to the inclemency of the air, it would be immediate death to one half of them; that tents were no use; that the proper coverings were huts, which the negroes who attended with provisions, would raise for the troops in a few days; and that he believed they might be reduced, but not without loss.
Mr.Sharp,Speaker of the Assembly of St. Vincent's, said, the Caribbs were a faithless people; that while they continued in the island, neither the lives nor properties of his Majesty's subjects could be secure; that murders and robberies were frequent; that his own negroes has been murdered in the field; and that no inducements were wanting to encourage negroes to desert; that the Caribbs were addicted to much drinking, and in their debaucheries were cruel, and abandoned to every species of vice.
Being asked by Col. Barré, what their vices were. He said they were indeed but few, because their ideas were but few. --Then, said Col. Barré, they are easier told. Mr. Sharp replied, they love plurality of women, and take pleasure in nothing so much as making themselves beasts by drinking to excess.

Don't they love liberty and property, said Col. Barré? the answer was, Yes. Then said the Col. if they love women and wine, liberty, and property, where's the difference, except in the colour. between them and Englishmen*. He made no answer. Being asked, he acknowledged himself adviser of the project for removing these people from the island, and wished they might be sent to Guinea, to St. Matthew, or to any other neutral island, where they might be provided for, and live in their own way. Gave it as his opinion that either they or his Majesty's subjects must quit the island, for that it was impossible for the latter to live safely, if the former were suffered to live independent.
The further enquiry into this business was deferred till
Monday 15, when Mr. Campbell, a planter in Grenades, was called to the bar.] This gentleman informed the House of an application made by the Caribbs to the Governor of Martinique for assistance against the English; which, he said, as we are now at peace with the French, the Governor rejected with indignation; but, said Mr. Campbell, in case of war, the French would most undoubtedly make use of the Caribbs to cut all our throats. He was asked from whom he had received this intelligence. He said from the Governor, Count Denerie, himself. He was asked where the conversation happened? He said in the island of Martinique; that he had long been acquainted with the Governor; that, having an estate in the Grenades, he went to Martinique on business; stayed there 10 days, during which time he had frequent conversations with the Governor, who was a man of the strictest honour. He was asked in what language they conversed? He said in French and English; that he himself understood a little French, and the Governor could speak broken Enlgish -- [Ordered to withdraw.
Mr. T. Townshend.]  As I am sensible how deficient I am, I must intreat the indulgence of the House, and I hope their candour will enable me to proceed. I have been accused of delay, and of procrastination in this affair; but with what justice I will leave the House to determine. It was my wish to have the business finished; and from the very moment I heard of 

* The House laughed out, and the Speaker for a moment lost his presence of mind. 
this

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