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Gray, and Dr. [R. Mitchell] Bush. I'm always hearing about some new vet on the staff, sometimes they're just interns. We have lots of veterinary help nowadays.

HENSON:   I noticed at one point apparently a pediatrician was helping with the care for the chimps and the gorillas. NIH--National Institute of Health--would do some autopsies on the animals, but other than that I guess there wasn't too much you could do. Did they do much medicating?

MANN:     Not NIH as much as the pathology division of Armed Services, from Walter Reed [Army Medical Center], or some connection there; I can't tell you exactly what it was.

HENSON:   From the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.

MANN:     Yes, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. Yes, they have helped and perhaps they still do, for all I know.

HENSON:   Their building was located where the Hirshhorn [Museum and Sculpture Garden] is now.

MANN:     Oh, really?

HENSON:   They had that museum.

MANN:     That's right, they did have a museum.

HENSON:   So probably there was again that close connection, because they had a fairly close connection with the Smithsonian at that